Episode 150 – A Podcast About Robin (DC Comics)

Holy bombastic, birds, Batman! The title gets a lot of hate, but you’ve got to put some respect on the name of Robin, the Boy Wonder! When the moniker is synonymous with the one and only Caped Crusader, and as the other half of the dynamic duo, being badass is a prerequisite! We’re here to break it down for the masses, from the creation of the character to the initial and beyond boy wonders who occupied the crimson carapaces and masks. The rises and falls, deaths and rebirths, horrible costumes, and some slightly better ones. Who best represented the identity of Robin? Hell, did Batman even need a Robin? What has he even done anyway, you may be asking, and that is why we’re here to fill you in!

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Full episode transcript available below:

Kalvin 0:06
podcasts about something where each week we dive deep into whatever it is we find interesting. I’m your host, Calvin and joining me. From blood haven to your co host Nick Richardson.

Nick 0:17
It’s a haven for blood. There’s gallons and gallons of it.

Unknown Speaker 0:21
Blood haven.

Unknown Speaker 0:22
Rude haven blue tell you we’re not German here.

Kalvin 0:25
But that’s how it’s spelled. It’s got the room loud over you.

Batman 0:30

Nick 0:31
I like it. I think it’s a I think it’s neat. It’s different. They’re

Kalvin 0:35
not quite as gloomy as Gotham but you know, it’s up there. And it’s gluten factor.

Nick 0:39
I mean, Gotham has gotten it. This has blood in it. This shit is dynamite. God never thought of that. Bridge city.

Kalvin 0:47
That’s interesting. I’m gonna stick in Central City. flashes got my back. I’m good. There

Nick 0:52
was central there too. I mean, you’re closer to 711 Really?

Kalvin 0:55
The cub foods in the middle of everything.

Batman 0:58

Kalvin 1:00
But we’re in blood haven because we’re talking about Robin today from Batman. And specifically the different people who have worn the Robin costume and why they’ve worn it. And just yeah, everything everything Robin you can think of

Nick 1:15
the boy fucking wonder that second part of the dynamic duo. You can’t sell this guy short. He’s had a dope career. I got us a day have had a dope career. Yeah, I gotta say all of them.

Kalvin 1:27
There’s a lot of murder. Yeah, well, you know.

Nick 1:31
Yeah, you know, we’re just tired. Sometimes.

Kalvin 1:33
Once in a while somebody dies.

Nick 1:35
There’s a pole for it. You know, you got to deal with it.

Kalvin 1:37
Yeah, when I mean when the craters make a pole and you lose that pole. You’re stuck.

Nick 1:43
I mean, fucking lose. Sorry, guy.

Kalvin 1:46
So, Robin is the alias of several fictional superheroes appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics, most notably, Batman sidekick, but sometimes kind of going off out on their own and doing their own thing. The character was originally created by Bob Kane, Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson, to serve as a junior counterpart to the superhero Batman. He first appeared as Dick Grayson in Detective Comics number 38. That was April 1940. And he was conceived as a way to attract young readership Robin Garner, Robin garnered overwhelmingly positive critical reception, doubling the sales of Batman titles, which I find that interesting that just adding this eight year old kid, just skyrockets, Batman, because I’m thinking of I have an eight year old kid in 1940. I already like what Batman is putting down. Why does he need a kid sidekick?

Nick 2:40
I think it was the parents, really, because you had the comic authority starting to take shape to really censor comics in general. And back then, comic books were kind of, you know, you usually wouldn’t get them unless your parents you know gave you money or you had like a paper out are they are they allowed it because shit Batman was a sinner. And he was not he was not

Kalvin 3:08
early incarnations back in the 30s and 40s.

Nick 3:11
Oh, yeah, he was shooting people and fuckin Yeah, but everybody was shooting people. Right, but that’s still bad.

Kalvin 3:17
You got the Lone Ranger. You got all those westerns going on?

Nick 3:21
He’s a vigilante. We don’t like those people.

Unknown Speaker 3:23
I guess.

Nick 3:24
They did not like vigilantes back in the day. I think I don’t I don’t really know for sure.

Kalvin 3:30
I have no idea. I wasn’t alive in the 40s.

Nick 3:32
I’ll call my grandpa and be like, Hey, did you ever feel alert? About Robin? Yeah. Fuck that. Short. Yeah, I’m gonna stop right there. Because

Unknown Speaker 3:42
Yeah, there you go.

Nick 3:43
file should.

Kalvin 3:45
The early Adventures of Robin included Star Spangled comics number 65 through 130 that ran from 1947 to 1952, which was the character’s first solo feature. So he got his own spin off in the late 40s and 50s for a little bit. He also made regular appearances in Batman related comic books and other DC comic publications from 1940 through the early 80s, until the character set aside, this is just decreasing Robin, and we’ll go into each different variant of that. But he eventually set aside the Robin identity and became an independent superhero Nightwing in the early 80s, and that’s when we lost our first Robin.

Unknown Speaker 4:23

Nick 4:25
I mean, it was time to grow up I gotta say, and I mean, when your

Kalvin 4:29
boy wonder for 45 years, yeah, you

Nick 4:32
gotta move on. It’s like, Ah, it’s like mermaid man and barnacle boy.

Batman 4:37
My boys

Nick 4:39
then, it’s like, I think Robin had an initial run of like, 108 issues or something like that. When he got his first solo title. He was extremely popular there.

Kalvin 4:49
Manga comics number 65 through 130 the first Robin comic that was titled Robin wasn’t until Tim Drake, I believe. I read I’ll get to that when we get to that

Nick 5:01
there’s so much information out there your God in blood haven.

Kalvin 5:07
So the team of Batman and Robin they’re commonly referred to as the dynamic duo or the cape Crusaders. So that’s that. I always wondered where the name Robin came from. So like in Batman Forever, he tells the story and it’s the dumbest story in the world of when, you know, Alfred picks up his motorcycle helmet. It’s got the Robin painted on it. And he asked him why Robin is that he said is his brother’s line broke one time on the trapeze. And he ran down there and saved him or whatever he got. He grabbed a different rope and swung out there and save him. His dad said he flew in like a Robin. I was like, What the fuck does that like our Robins known for saving people randomly? Currently, like swooping in I’ve never known Robins to do that. I thought they were like a songbird.

Nick 5:56
Well, that and the nipples I mean,

Kalvin 5:58
yes. very prominent nipples as well.

Nick 6:03
He saved him with his singing. He’s like, bro, don’t fucking fall. And his brother was like, Alright, dude, fine. Stop it, though.

Unknown Speaker 6:10
Don’t think anymore.

Kalvin 6:12
So when we did Batman movie superlatives a few weeks ago, and I’m rewatching that and I’m like, okay, that can’t be the real origin of Robin. It’s too stupid.

Unknown Speaker 6:22
Oh, hell no.

Kalvin 6:22
And so I was like, where does it come from? And I knew I had this on an upcoming episode that I wanted to do. So I was like, well, we’ll just do the whole episode soon. So I can research it then. So that was one of my biggest questions going into this and it seems like the name Robin the boy wonder in the medieval look of him, or at least of the original costume were inspired by Robin Hood.

Nick 6:44
Yeah. Which was the creator of Robin Hood, or Robin, the creator of the boy wonder was just like, you know, Robin Hood’s pretty tight.

Kalvin 6:52
I like that. I mean, that’s pretty much it. Jerry Robinson noted that he came up with Robin because the adventures of Robin Hood were boyhood favorites of his. He had been given a robin hood book illustrated by NC Wyeth. And that’s what he quickly sketched out when he suggested the name Robin Hood, which they seem to like and then show them the costume. So he says if you look at it, it’s why it’s costume for my memory because I didn’t have a book to look at. So he did his best recreation Robin Hood’s

Nick 7:23
cost tentatively short shorts.

Kalvin 7:24
Yeah. And I’m just like, I get inspiring after Robin Hood. But why are you just stealing the name? Or not stealing the full name? Why can’t Batman’s sidekick be Robin Hood? He can wear a hood? Just like I mean, Damian and Tim Drake eventually wear a hood. So I don’t get

Nick 7:41
there’s a redhead. But we don’t also think it’s just easier to say Batman and Robin,

Kalvin 7:47
Batman and Robin Hood. I feel like that would sound weird. It’s like okay, we’re co opting Robin Hood, but none of his backstory so you have to you have to cut it short. Yeah get. Some other accounts of Robins origin state that the name comes from the bird called the American Robin, not from Robin Hood and Frank Miller’s All Star Batman and Robin being a notable exception. Sometimes both sources are credited as in Len whines the untold legend of Batman.

Batman 8:13
And they just

Nick 8:15
all star Batman fucking sucked. I just want to go on record with that. It was not I never read it. It was fucking awful. I don’t

Kalvin 8:22
know why you go after this little songbird. I I don’t know. I don’t

Unknown Speaker 8:27
hear that. Oh, boy.

Batman 8:28
I guess.

Kalvin 8:29
Where’s read? So I guess it makes sense.

Nick 8:32
So yeah, I just think it’s a pretty bird got a problem with that. Another one is that I read is that his mother in the comics just like calling him Robin. So there’s I mean, that one’s just kind of easy. Yeah,

Kalvin 8:46
yeah, that’s almost kind of like the The Dark Knight Rises thrown in like that. JOHN Blake’s middle name was Robin or whatever is searched on Robin. Yeah, that was weird and kind of out of place. But uh, so Nick, why does Batman even need a sidekick?

Nick 9:02
You know, I always I 100% think he does. And you see the ramifications of not having one later in his career. But I think that does a couple things for Batman and I was curious about this question when I was younger because I used to rag on Robin so fucking hard. Especially when like Batman Beyond came out and it’s like, okay, that should that should be brought that you know, that’s what Robin should be. But I think it keeps Batman from from crossing that Thin Red, like a robin line if you if you will, you know, committing the murder.

Kalvin 9:42
of the eight year old children though.

Nick 9:44

Kalvin 9:45
Okay in an adult psychic.

Nick 9:47
I don’t think so. I think the kid aspect of it really keeps Batman on his toes. Like I think it puts a tremendous amount of mental stress on him, but it keeps him tight and It’s all a mental thing. I mean, this is all medically, he’s

Kalvin 10:03
got someone while he’s out there, because he’s never gonna protect himself. Bringing Rob along, keeps him grounded keeps him looking for someone to directly protect, right? Obviously, he’s going after these criminals, not customers, he’s going after these criminals to defend the city or whatever. But there’s not always a damsel in distress or anything right in front of them when he’s facing to face or the penguin or something like that. So having Robin there. Now there’s someone in immediate danger that actually needs his help. So I could see that. Well, you’re saying

Nick 10:37
for to a certain degree, I think it’s more being aware, more aware of like his surroundings, I think it lends itself to the research aspect of Batman, because if he’s got this, this kid tagging along with him that has a similar Arsenal, but not quite as good, similar training, but not quite as good. He’s,

Kalvin 10:55
like, almost all of the good gadgets, but quite short shorts themselves,

Nick 11:01
you know, that’s not going to help you out no fucking bar fight or whatever, but I just think it keeps him more open minded. You know, like, you are when you’re driving around with your kids, like, I’m hyper fucking aware, no matter what if my, if my kids in the car, I just I am. I pay more attention than I would if it was just me solo. I also think he is that that’s Batman, Bruce Wayne’s way of building a legacy, or at least making Batman an eternal symbol. Because if he can continue to bring in Robins and then elevate the Robins to Batman,

Kalvin 11:39
there’s always orphans around Gotham City for some reason, right?

Nick 11:42
I make a lot of them. I mean, I got my pick of the litter. But I think it’s, you know, no one knows the man behind the mask. And ultimately, that’s what Batman is, is a symbol. And as long as someone has a deep scratchy voice, and breaks kneecaps, you know you’re qualified.

Kalvin 11:59
That’s fair. I was kind of on the other side of the coin here, I get that it’s an attempt to attract younger readers. I didn’t think Batman really needed a sidekick. But you know, Dick, and Bruce, they kind of bonded over the deaths of their parents and Dick requested to help Batman to help investigate the murder of dicks parents. So I think it just, it helped Robin do. Batman was there to help dick deal with his trauma in a way that he wasn’t able to when his parents first died.

Nick 12:32
Oh, I mean, absolutely. And by extension that helps Bruce deal with the trauma of his parents dying. And another thing I always looked at as is having this young Ward is a way of keeping Bruce Wayne alive. You know what I mean? So he doesn’t fall fully into the persona of Batman. There’s a real person relying on him. You know what I mean? It’s not the city of Gotham or Commissioner Gordon. It’s a it’s a child at the end of the day.

Kalvin 13:00
It also scares off chicks who might want to get too serious. Seriously, he’s

Nick 13:03
like, well, I got this kid got a 12 year old bucket. So we’re not related. But he

Kalvin 13:09
does gymnastics all over the place all the time. So he might not want to come back to the manor

Nick 13:13
stay about 10 feet back because he backflips to the fridge and it gets messy.

Kalvin 13:18
So yeah, he’s best known as Batman sidekick, but the Robins have also been members of Teen Titans and Young Justice. And Dick Grayson was obviously a founding member of Teen Titans and then later the group’s leader as well.

Nick 13:33
I mean, yeah, founding member I think he was the de facto leader from the get go. Yeah. And, you know, spent more and more time doing that, but I really got into Teen Titans for a while. There’s a darker run. I’m gonna say early 2000s. It was fantastic. And then the cartoon. It was mid 2000. I’ve

Kalvin 13:51
heard good things about the cartoon. I

Nick 13:52
never watched it. Not that not the newer one but it’s Yeah,

Kalvin 13:56
no, no, not Teen Titans Go the the red. Yes. Yeah, I remember freaking love

Nick 14:00
that cartoon was great. I didn’t

Kalvin 14:02
like because that was Tim Drake Robin, wasn’t it?

Unknown Speaker 14:04
I don’t remember to tell you the truth.

Kalvin 14:06
I’m not a big fan of him. Very. Whoo. Well, so I don’t have a lot of experience with you know, he’s in the Arkham games a little bit. I’ve seen some of those Teen Titans with him in it. And then so when the animated series eventually becomes Nightwing in like Episode 120, or something, he finally becomes Nightwing. And they they skip Jason Todd completely. And Tim Drake comes in and he’s like, really young. Because Dick was always like, late teens and into college in Batman The Animated Series. Then they bring in like 10 year old Tim Drake, and I’m just like, he’s annoying.

Nick 14:42
He he can be annoying. And

Kalvin 14:45
in that sense, and when we talk about Tim Drake, like the comics background, I like a little bit better. But my personal experience with him is he’s like okay, this kid to know it all and he’s annoying. Oh,

Nick 14:55
man, there’s there’s one line that I just I fucking love that. Batman says in a later comic about Tim Drake, and that’s why I will talk about it later.

Kalvin 15:05
Yeah, we’re gonna get to Tim Drake. So first, let’s just list off. Throughout that history. Everyone who has done the Robin moniker, we’re gonna get hit the main five in the main continuity and then we’ll just briefly touch on all the elseworlds Robins. So the main five, we’re gonna go into detail in a minute. Those are Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and Damian Wayne, and I don’t after reading about Stephanie Brown, I don’t know how much she counts. But we’ll

Nick 15:35
see how she fucking counts. And Carrie Kelly doesn’t count.

Kalvin 15:39
Yeah, well, so that that’s what I was looking for was was Carrie Kelly. But I guess technically Dark Knight Returns as an elseworlds. So it wasn’t ever because Batman still hasn’t gotten to old age Batman in the main continuity of Batman, what are you know, whatever the main Batman run is because then they rebooted after crisis, and they rebooted new 52 and all that stuff. So he never actually gets to that point. where she’s coming in.

Nick 16:07
She’s never referred to as Robin either,

Kalvin 16:09
right. And I was just looking through the Wikipedia and these were the five listed and Stephanie’s just kind of jammed in there between Tim and Damien. So we’ll have a we’ll have a bit honor. Yeah. So the elseworlds one, Bruce Wayne, in a 1950s run Bruce donzi Robin costume to study being a detective under Harvey Harris. And then this is revisited in 1980s. The Untold legend of Batman miniseries so I guess he just kind of like plays the part of Robin to someone else. Yeah,

Nick 16:40
it’s got like a full beard. He’s Hi. I’m Robin. The boy wonder.

Batman 16:44
I’m the boy wonder.

Nick 16:46
He’s like the fuck. What have you been doing? We’ll take a scotch.

Batman 16:55
I swear.

Unknown Speaker 16:56
Swear to me.

Kalvin 17:10
So there’s pre Crisis on Infinite Earths birth to Robin where this is decreasing. Continue being Robin into adulthood. It never became Nightwing but he perishes in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Switch.

Batman 17:26
You swear me? I’m not Batman.

Guys, guys, I’m back. Love. Love to be here. Thanks. Oh, the next guy is the toy wonder. Toy one.

Kalvin 17:44
This happened in dc 1 million, where the Justice League of America encounters a Batman from the 850/3 century that patrols the prison planet of Pluto and has a robotic Robin sidekick. So shout out. Boy Wonder.

Nick 17:58
dumb as fuck.

Kalvin 18:01
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about Carrie Kelly. But where did she show up? What was her deal?

Nick 18:05
Carrie Kelly showed up in The Dark Knight Returns Frank Miller’s seminal,

Kalvin 18:11
solid animated two part film two very solid.

Nick 18:17
She actually saved Batman with nothing but a slingshot. He was losing to the leader of the mutants in the sewers and Carrie came to the rescue. And she proceeded to assist Batman and later became that woman fantastic she’s she’s really a great character. She then appeared in The Dark Knight Strikes Again or strikes back and DK three the master race. There we go which is also very good if you haven’t read it. I have not be underrated. It’s kind of I haven’t

Kalvin 18:48
read a lot of Batman comics. I’ll be out there I read The Dark Knight metals.

Batman 18:51
Metals Yeah.

Nick 18:52
Oh, it’s like 100 times what are dark and every

Kalvin 18:54
everything is it’s really a shit. I want to I started to read like Batman Beyond from the beginning. And then I the the 15 different apps you have to try with DC and however they weren’t like I lost whatever I had bought or downloaded on like, because I think I started on comixology and then you know they open their own app and then they change their app again and DC is too confusing for me to look at. Then there was Talon, this is Earth three Robin. It needs an associate of Allah man under the True Crime Syndicate or the crime syndicate. Sorry. That’s on our three there’s Halina lane. She featured in Flashpoint and the new 52 on earth to She’s the daughter of Bruce Wayne and I wrote Selina Kyle, but it just had Catwoman. So it might not be Celine Kyle, but I was just assuming it was Selina Kyle.

Batman 19:50

Kalvin 19:52
But this is on earth too. So and then eventually, there’s a new crisis in New 52 at some point, I guess, and she gets converted over to Earth zero and becomes Huntress again.

Nick 20:04
Dude, it’s so confused DC needs to chill the fuck out but shout out Talon river shout out DC talent is dope as fuck is that?

Kalvin 20:14
Is that a Dick Grayson from our three?

Nick 20:16
No it’s a it’s talents and assassin for the or they call it the cornrows. Yeah and he first appeared in Scott Snyder’s Batman run. And I just I remember when they first showed up if you’ve never read that, oh my god, dude, it’s so good. It’s like a total mindfuck borderline like horror imagery of Batman. And just his total unraveling of his mind and he gets bested by talent repeatedly. So that that storyline of him becoming a Robin is fantastic. Cool.

Kalvin 20:51
might check it out. Yeah.

Nick 20:51
Totally check it out, man. No, I,

Kalvin 20:54
I like the idea of these stories. But anytime I pick up a DC book, it’s so accomplished right off the bat. It’s just like, well, I read this other 17 books, and you might kind of know what’s going on. And then Hawkman shows up for some reason. It’s all about Hawk man’s metal.

Nick 21:13
I can 100% tell you that it’s a self contained story. It was the first first issue of Batman after the new 52 launched.

Kalvin 21:21

Nick 21:22
And it’s very good. It’s got Scott Snyder, who’s a fantastic Greg Caputo. I want to say Kabuto great art. Just a great story. It’s the introduction of the court of owls.

Kalvin 21:34
Gotcha. Then I just want to mention Chris O’Donnell real quick. We talked about him a little bit. He’s Batman Forever. And Batman and Robin.

Nick 21:41
You’ll fuck that dude.

Kalvin 21:42
He’s He’s Dick Grayson, slightly different origin. He’s got to face being the killer of his parents. And he’s like, 35 years old.

Unknown Speaker 21:50
So yeah, man. I’m 1730 Yes. So

Kalvin 21:52
I want to talk about that real quick. I don’t know if we talked about when we did Batman when we superlative that’s something that always bothered me is that he’s old enough to drive his motorcycle by himself. But he’s not old enough that they’re just like, no, you’re a fucking adult. Get out of here, man. He’s 35

Nick 22:11
he does man. He’s

Kalvin 22:11
so why. Why is he taking in this 35 year old Ward? was always my question.

Nick 22:18
That he’s trying to pick up chicks.

Kalvin 22:20
Commissioner Gordon get on this. All right.

Batman 22:24
Batman, wait about sharing my house with a 35 year old dude.

Nick 22:28
He’s He’s like Matt gay gats grown adult adopted child that he let go to spring break. to kind of let him be Robin. You know he’s, he’s all right.

Kalvin 22:40
Right. So let’s get into the five some fundamental, something’s about Robin and that is our five main Robins from the main Batman continuity. We’re gonna start with Dick Grayson. Let’s see what you got into that. Oh, go ahead.

Nick 22:54
We’ve mentioned most of this already in passing. So we’ll zoom through him pretty quick.

Kalvin 22:59
Yeah. And I mean, he’s he’s the first and the most is known about him. His first parents is Detective Comics number 38 April 1940 he remained the one and only Boy Wonder until 1969 then he continued still as Robin but was the teen wonder up until he became Nightwing and that is just like nah Dude, chill the fuck out. Just wonder just drop wonder altogether just be just be Robin.

Nick 23:25
Yeah, just be right i mean you sound even more like an asshole.

Kalvin 23:28
Yeah, for real. So the main things we’re gonna focus on on each one is when did they first become Robin what issues did they show up in? Why did they become Robin? Just some general accomplishments that they had throughout comics runs Why did they stop being Robin and what do they do after Robin so those are the five things we’re gonna hit for each Robin. So he became Robin when his parents the flying Grayson’s were killed by gangster boss Zuko when he was eight years old.

Nick 23:57
What a poor bastard. But also what a poor bastard that this kids in a circus basically, his parents were like yeah, go jump around with no net on nimbly membeli from tree to tree. Oh nimbly, men live from today.

Kalvin 24:10
And that Tropic Thunder No, that is super troopers. Okay.

Nick 24:15
Same same vein of dope ass movie.

Kalvin 24:18
Yeah. So Basu got a bear apparently been extorting the circus, and he killed his parents by sabotaging their trapeze equipment as a warning against defiance from any other circus dwellers. Bruce Wayne brought dickin as a legal Ward and meanwhile, as Batman, he’s investigating Zuko in an attempt to bring him to justice. Dick had overheard some conversations backstage apparently he wanted to go to the police because he had heard them threatening the circus owners and Batman warms and just to chill out chill out right such as get stitches. He basically

Nick 24:50
Yeah. And they’ll throw you in a ditch for real kill the shit out of you little man snitches

Kalvin 24:55
get ditches in Gotham City.

Nick 24:57

Kalvin 24:58
So He volunteers to help Batman in investigating the crimes and the murders of his parents. And so Batman shares kind of his own tragic backstory. And then he starts training dick to become Robin and creates costume for him. So you know, he’s a great sower. Bruce Wayne.

Batman 25:16
Great. Busy in the data,

Nick 25:19
keeps my fingers nimble. Great for throwing bad earnings

Batman 25:22
or choking motherfuckers

Nick 25:26
I made my own dude wrote. You know Alfred’s Like, seriously, Master Bruce? For an eight year old?

Kalvin 25:35
Yeah, we’re really gonna take him out there investigating murders and stuff.

Unknown Speaker 25:39
took these sketches. They’re dope. All right, man. Well, and

Kalvin 25:43
and Bruce became Batman. The story is like 20 to 24 right?

Nick 25:49
I always thought he was around 2728 because he leaves Gotham as Ryan ager like around 1718 and travels the world and learns like every kind of martial art and hones his detective skills before he returns back to Gotham.

Kalvin 26:03
Yeah, for some reason I thought it was it was lower 20s

Nick 26:07
it quite possibly could be. I mean, there’s so many fucking tune in

Kalvin 26:10
some other time for a podcast about Batman. Maybe we’ll talk about that.

Nick 26:14
Yeah, dang.

Kalvin 26:17
So let’s go over some of Robins accomplishments.

Unknown Speaker 26:23
You go first. Pick.

Nick 26:24
I I mean, he fucking created the Teen Titans. It’s good. The Young Justice League basically.

Kalvin 26:31
Yeah. He did actually help Batman track and capture ball Zuko. I think that’s first and foremost important. I liked this one where he attempts to save the current Gotham district attorney and Batman from a double hangman’s noose trap kind of like in Batman Forever where two faces has Robin and chase meridian in the thing. It’s kind of the same deal there. And he ended up freeing the DA with a with a well placed battering, but there was a second part to the trap and the DA fell into the water below and drown. So he basically killed this dude. Yeah, not a good time to face jumps down and just starts beating the shit out of Robin while Batman still tied up. Batman eventually frees himself and stops to face and Batman fires Robin for a short period after this because he doesn’t want to be responsible for harm to Robin. And it like he can tell that this caused. You know, Robin had some PTSD from that. Yeah,

Nick 27:27
he had a tremendous amount of PTSD. He’s not having a good time.

Kalvin 27:32
Not as much as Jason Todd, but we’re not there yet.

Nick 27:35
We’re not quite there yet. But fuck that dude.

Kalvin 27:38
But speaking of Jason Todd Dick Grayson was also shot by the Joker at 17. So nine years into this and Batman tried to end his career for good at that point Robin had left Batman did his own thing for a while with the Teen Titans and whatnot. And Batman told Robin that if he was going to continue fighting crime, he had to retire as Robin. Because again, he got shot now. Yeah, he can’t I mean, that doesn’t like that.

Nick 28:02
Like, no, you’re a bitch. You’ve been shot. You can’t be my boy wonder anymore. You’re a man. Now you’ve been you’ve taken a bullet.

Unknown Speaker 28:09
You’re the team wonder.

Kalvin 28:11
What else? Did you have any other accomplishments for Dick Grayson, Robert,

Nick 28:15
I really wanted to group a large portion of some of Batman’s accomplishments with Robins in the sense because Batman could have killed lots of people. And he would have without decreasing. He was the one. Really I think his greatest accomplishment was teaching Batman a little fucking humility. And he is literally the only person to stand up to Batman.

Kalvin 28:41
Yeah. And that was in the next part of why he stopped being robbed. And part of that is they had these constant disagreements between each other because Batman like to torture and really just, he fucking really

Nick 28:53
destroyed criminals brutally massacred a lot. I mean, he physically disabled hundreds of people.

Kalvin 29:00
And Dick Grayson didn’t like that. And so he constantly challenged Batman over the Batman’s treatment of criminals. And so the so that was part of their falling out. And I like what you said is by challenging Batman on that it helped Batman become more humanitarian person that beats the shit out of mentally unstable, credible criminals.

Nick 29:22
Well, it just added it added another, you know, kit to Batman’s kit, if that makes any sense. It’s just a whole nother situation. Right? Also, another thing that Robin has accomplished in and I’m going to go back to the vein of the Teen Titans is managing to bring together and lead a team of a team of super powered teenagers that nobody wants to fucking deal with teenagers. Not even teenagers,

Kalvin 29:52
not even other teenagers. They

Nick 29:53
fucking hate themselves. Evidence I was a teenager at one point.

Kalvin 29:58
Yep, I’m right there with you. So as we discussed, he stopped being Robin due to these disagreements over the treatment of criminals, but also the the fallout from being shot by the Joker. Batman just wasn’t gonna let him be Robin anymore. Well, so he had move on.

Nick 30:13
I mean, he got shot in the shoulder. It was in the hospital for quite a while and Batman never visited him. And when he finally bled, guys, they don’t do visiting hours in the middle of the night. Batman can’t just show up at some guy’s hospital. Then they’ll know who I am. I’m sorry. But did they’ll realize these are hockey pads?

Batman 30:36

Nick 30:39
but he he left them a note that said something like, you know, get well soon or some some shit is basically like, you are not robbing anymore. Idiot. Don’t get shot next time.

Batman 30:52
What I said is you can’t be Robin. You fucked up. go hang out with your teenage friends.

Unknown Speaker 30:59
You’re done fucked up. Robin took away from me. Yeah, basic, your basic Paul Mooney voice.

Kalvin 31:08
So Nick, what happened to Dick Grayson,

Nick 31:10
after he was Robin? He became Nightwing. And he went to blood haven.

Kalvin 31:17
Do you know where he got the name Nightwing from and all in all that?

Nick 31:20
I do too.

Kalvin 31:24
Well, I took notes on it. So I can tell you

Nick 31:25
I have it in my notes somewhere. But I don’t want to scroll through all of them to find that one line.

Kalvin 31:30
So first, he gave up being the leader of the Teen Titans. Just because that’s right pressures off. He sought out Superman for advice on what to do next. He even considered giving up on crimefighting altogether. That probably would have been the right choice. But you know, Superman is not gonna let him do that came like best buds was super boy. Yeah, so Superman informed him of some unknown hero on Krypton called Nightwing that would kind of swoop in and save people. So dick decided he was going to take up this mantle on earth and continue fighting crime as you said in blue David.

Unknown Speaker 32:03
I like the way you say that say that again. Blue Hey, no, I

Kalvin 32:05
screwed up. That’s probably not it’s just supposed to be blood haven but you know,

Nick 32:10
I mean, he he definitely had

Batman 32:13
speak German here.

Nick 32:15
outgrown the bat, Boy Wonder mantle type situation. And, you know, as a person going to college, flunking out of college after Bruce decided he was Robin no longer because he’s extremely depressed so he needed something else to do. had to go take care of another city

Kalvin 32:34
in comes blood haven. And then eventually he becomes Batman for a short while when Bruce is quote, I

Nick 32:39
thought that’s a fucking great storyline. Man. He is such an interesting Batman.

Kalvin 32:43
It seems like one that’s another one that I do.

Nick 32:46
He’s a super interesting Batman because he’s so much more human. Like he’s way emotional. And way less detective. So it’s really

Kalvin 32:57
it’s Yeah, he never really caught on to the whole.

Nick 33:00
It’s a very unique version of Batman.

Kalvin 33:03
That’s definitely one that that is on my want to read list. So let’s move in to everyone’s favorite. Jason Todd,

Unknown Speaker 33:13
Jason Todd,

Kalvin 33:16
so much favorite that the fans voted to kill, but we’re not there. So he first became Robin. His first appearance as Jason Todd was in Batman number 357. And then as Robin was nine issues later in Batman number 366, which came in December of 1983.

Nick 33:32
Yeah, his his original run he was it was basically the exact same origin as decoration, which I thought was dumb as fuck, but they redeem themselves with his rebooted origin, where he was in crime alley as he’s an orphan. Mom died from a drug overdose and his dad was killed by he did a job poorly for penguin and just disappeared. And so he was trying to steal the tires off a Batmobile.

Kalvin 34:02
That doesn’t seem like a good idea. No,

Nick 34:04
but that’s ballsy. And I like that. No,

Kalvin 34:06
it’s you know, it’s a Batmobile. It’s all black. There’s bats all over it like you know, that’s the Batmobile. Yeah, man

Nick 34:12
just leaving it parked in crime fucking alley. Like I’m surprised no one hasn’t put that shit on center. He needed

Kalvin 34:18
a Rob and he was what he was waiting for some ballsy kid to try and steal the tires. He was he knew what was going on.

Nick 34:24
He may just be right. He

Kalvin 34:26
he paid some teenager to recruit Jason Todd to be in their little gang and to dare him to go steal the tires off the Batmobile and boom, that’s what we get. Boom,

Unknown Speaker 34:37
boom tire.

Kalvin 34:39
So as you said, pre crisis. He’s the son of circus acrobats again, and his the parents are murdered by a criminal again, but this time it’s Killer Croc. And then again, that’s adopted by Bruce Wayne. And he’s, he’s kind of like a joyful, jubilant Acrobat in that in that pre crisis run, but then post post crisis. They switch them up completely. Like you said St. orphans temps is still attires he actually helped Batman catch random gang of robbers at some point. So Batman is just like yeah, sure you can be Robin. You helped him at one time.

Nick 35:13
He’s like, I am so lonely.

Unknown Speaker 35:15
He kind of kept.

Unknown Speaker 35:16
I needed

Kalvin 35:17
Bruce kind of kept an eye after he caught him stealing his tires. He made sure he gotten a group home. And like he kept an eye on him and that eventually he he’s helped Batman with that, that one random crime. He’s much more violent postcrisis than dick ever was super rageful and, and Batman believes that he can channel this rage and become a skilled crimefighter by channeling rage, kind of like Batman has done in his own right. But apparently Batman is not good at teaching that because it doesn’t ever really take.

Nick 35:47
No when you can never admit that you’re wrong. Or you’re a dick. That tends to fuck some stuff up.

Kalvin 35:53
Yeah. I really like have you watched Titans at all?

Nick 35:55
I haven’t. I have not. I’ve watched I mean, I’ve seen the trailers, but I was really butthurt about how they did. Beast Boy, I guess in Star hard. Yeah. Fuck that, man. You’ll fuck that guy.

Batman 36:09
I bet. I bet.

Kalvin 36:13
It’s Jason Todd is very entertaining in it.

Nick 36:16
I heard he’s one of the best parts of the show.

Kalvin 36:18
Yeah, he is the guy that they’ve got playing man is is just super fun. And does not seem to give an F about anything.

Nick 36:27
That that is very Jason Todd esque. He’s the most carefree person in. Really in all of Gotham. It seems like in his early comic run, because he’s really enjoying the moment. You know what I mean? He’s enjoying doing copious amounts of violence with super cool toys. And having a sweet costume.

Kalvin 36:49
That’s that this is kind of it. Um, what did you say you didn’t like about these boy?

Nick 36:56
I just like I said, I’ve only seen the previews or trailers and stuff like that. just didn’t seem very Beast Boy ask. I don’t

Kalvin 37:06
I don’t have any bad version. Yeah, I don’t have any I have any history of Beast Boy. I kind of like him. I think he does a good job in the actor does a pretty good job. But I don’t have any

Nick 37:18
history with these boys to know what the characterization should be. He always struck me as a kind of a clown. Like he’s really just clown ish.

Kalvin 37:27
Yeah, that’s not really what’s happening. And Titans. They say that for Jason Todd.

Nick 37:32
He’s really like a creative kid running around with like dinosaur toys.

Batman 37:37
Yeah, you know, any of that?

Nick 37:39
priceless imagination.

Kalvin 37:42
No, that that is not tightened speech. Boy. So I feel I mean, I assume so when they say fuck Batman. Batman. Hey.

Batman 37:54
Swear to me.

Unknown Speaker 37:59
So let’s talk

Kalvin 38:00
about some of Jason Todd’s accomplishments. I like this one. This is from the pre crisis Jason Todd. At Superman’s birthday party at the Fortress of Solitude. He saved Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman from Mongol by unleashing Mongols own hallucination causing creature back on to Mongol himself. And early comic books. were super duper weird.

Batman 38:25

Kalvin 38:27
just calls up all these guys. Hey, yeah, make sure you bring that 10 year old kid with you. We’re having a party. It’s in the ice fortress. You guys will be fine. Don’t worry. I’ll turn the heat up. Might be a bad guy here. Doesn’t matter. We’ll be good. Let’s all just go to superfans birthday party.

Nick 38:44
Let’s just hang out smoke a few blinds.

Kalvin 38:50
We’re still reeling from the Kevin Smith movies last week.

Nick 38:52
Yes, yes. Fuck mother FUCK FUCK mother. Fuck mother fuck noise noise noise.

Kalvin 38:59
He also helped tackle the drug problem in his school by being just an absolute fucking snitch. turns in all the local drug dealers who had been working for two phase to the police.

Unknown Speaker 39:10
Yeah, not

Kalvin 39:12
guess that’s an accomplishment. But it’s not really like a route an accomplishment

Nick 39:16
is really not that great.

Kalvin 39:19
Do you have any pre crisis? Rob? Jason Todd accomplishment?

Nick 39:24
Really just just little stuff. Most of my accomplishments I kind of focused on when he was right. I think that’s the most

Kalvin 39:35
Yeah, he’s in his way. There’s

Nick 39:37
much more. Yeah, there really isn’t a whole lot going on. I mean, he didn’t have a very

Kalvin 39:43
long run. It was like five years or something I want to say

Nick 39:46
right. And he’s, I think his biggest thing was at towards a serial rapist and yeah,

Kalvin 39:52
so that was that was my post crisis thing is he may or may not have killed a rapist that was granted diplomatic total video.

Nick 40:00
Dude, he got him.

Kalvin 40:01
So what happens is he, so this guy rapes this girl and gets away with it because his dad is home diplomat and he’s granted diplomatic immunity. The girl hangs herself, Jason Todd discovers her that she had hanged herself. And he goes immediately to this rapist department. And he says the rapist, quote unquote, fell off the 22nd story balcony just as Jason arrived. And he claims quote, unquote, again, he must have spooked him.

Nick 40:32
No, so Batman rose up and basically sees the body hit the ground and Jason’s on the lead.

Kalvin 40:38
He’s like standing in the West. Oh,

Nick 40:40
yeah. Whoops, see,

Kalvin 40:42
kinda like. So first, Raimi? Spider Man, I think is how they’re trying to play it off is is when he goes after Uncle Ben’s killer, and chases them to that warehouse. Except this is like a second story in our 22nd story. And, you know, Toby, spooks him out of the window. I think that’s kind of the same image that they’re trying to grant us but you know, we never actually see Jason Todd push him but knowing Jason Todd, he definitely pushed.

Nick 41:08
He pushed us out of him. Yeah. So I mean, his revenge was tight. I like that. I mean, I I’m a fan of that. I think that serial rapist deserves to probably die.

Kalvin 41:19
Well, and then he later saves Batman from the rapist father who had there’s some convoluted plot that involves kidnapping Commissioner Gordon and Jason stills way in the trunk of Batmobile. Batman gets ambushed and you know, Robin pretty much jumps out of the trunk of the Batmobile and saves the day. But Commissioner Gordon still gets shot. A lot of people just get randomly shot in the arm. You man comics.

Nick 41:40
I mean, they’re like, let’s wing them. Yeah, let’s make it look bad.

Kalvin 41:45
We got to let readers think that they died for at least one frame. And then we’ll show that it was just a shoulder. It’s fun.

Nick 41:51
Right? Whoo.

Kalvin 41:52
And as we’ve alluded to many times, his greatest accomplishment is that he dies. Yeah, like that’s what everyone knows about. Jason Todd Robin,

Nick 42:02
right. He’s the the one killed by the Joker. Joker beats him to death with a crowbar after Jason finds out that his real mom was not the woman that died from a drug overdose but someone in like Honduras doing a Michelle via Ethiopia. That’s right. So he shows there and tries to

Kalvin 42:22
wait one second. So as the accomplishment of dying, this was voted on the readers out. Basically, DC didn’t. They didn’t know if people actually liked it. So they’re just like, should we kill Robin? Yes or No. and open it up. They got flooded with answers that way above what they’re expecting. And yes, edged out No, by a margin of 5343 yeses to 5271 nose. So it

Nick 42:52
was pretty close. It was very close.

Kalvin 42:55
But, you know, it was within what is that? 70 votes and refer. And so they never knew whether like, okay, people really just hated Jason Todd, or they? They didn’t know maybe readers just wanted to see if they would actually do it. If we all vote yes. Are they actually going to kill them?

Nick 43:15
I think that was

Kalvin 43:16
that was actually I think that price spurred a lot of people voted. Yes. I’m sure there’s some people that didn’t like Jason Todd.

Nick 43:21
I would have voted. Yes. would have been like, Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Kalvin 43:23
Let’s see. Yeah. Okay. You know, there. Historically, no stakes in comic books. So let’s kill somebody make it stick other than Bucky Barnes everyone stays, or no, very

Nick 43:33
good comparison. Yeah, that was a very good one. Okay, so

Kalvin 43:38
now talk about Sheila Heywood in Ethiopia. So this is why he stops being Robin because he,

Nick 43:46
yes, he goes to Ethiopia and finds out that it was a ruse by the Joker who is blackmailing this woman to get a boy wonder so he could keep?

Kalvin 43:56
I think she actually was his mom. Because there’s there’s two steps here is he goes somewhere else first, somewhere, there’s

Nick 44:02
really a test

Kalvin 44:04
yet so he goes somewhere in the Middle East. Because he thinks this this person is his mom. And she’s not so then he find Sheila Haywood. And the Joker thing was separate from what I read. And I could be wrong. You’ve probably read comics on this. I was just reading the Wikipedia but what it seemed like is the Joker was blackmailing Sheila separately because she was embezzling money from like this aid foundation she worked for. And so she he’s blackmailing her and to get out of his blackmail when Jason Todd shows up as Robin she’s like, well, this will get me at it. This is my get out of jail free card and she turns him over to Joker.

Nick 44:45
Yes, it was all a ruse basically by the Joker.

Kalvin 44:48
It was a ruse. Okay.

Nick 44:49
Yes to get it’s all to get Batman base. Okay.

Kalvin 44:54
It’s always a ruse by the Joker. I

Nick 44:56
should, right it’s it’s a way to destroy Batman mentally He basically has already rigged this place to explode. So when Jason Todd shows up he had you know, he wants to save his his mom and then Joker ends up surprising him beating the dog shit out of him with a crowbar basically to death. And then

Kalvin 45:16
yeah, we don’t know if he died by the crowbar or the bomb, but right

Nick 45:19
and then the bomb goes, boom. But yeah, I own a original death in the family number one, very excited about that. But that, you know, that’s a very iconic cover.

Unknown Speaker 45:33
Yes, it’s just so good.

Kalvin 45:36
Okay, so yeah, you know more about it than I do. Obviously. Like I said, I was reading the Wikipedia and it seemed like she the way they made it seem as if it wasn’t all this, but like, he just kind of fell into Joker’s lap more than anything but

Unknown Speaker 45:51
jokers in the lab.

Kalvin 45:54
So what does he do after Robin? Well, first he dies. Yeah, and he stays dead for quite some time. But Not really, no one ever stayed dead. He later returns as the Red Hood, a super violent vigilante that will take the steps to fight crime and cross the lines that Batman won’t cross.

Nick 46:14
Roll initially he wants to fucking

Kalvin 46:16
kill me. Yeah. And he wants vengeance on Batman for not taking on Joker.

Nick 46:23
He just led my dad. I am the night

Batman 46:28
I wake my wife up.

Kalvin 46:32
So do you know what caused his resurrection?

Batman 46:38
I do.

Nick 46:42
Basically soup Okay, so super boy prime alters reality stuff is so stupid so fucking dumb. He basically punches this barrier. And paradise

Kalvin 46:53

Nick 46:55
right? Whatever dimension I this is all vague to me. And he causes these stupid parallel timelines. And Jason Todd is restored to life.

Kalvin 47:04
Yeah. So what I what I took down from the Wikipedia summary into my own summary was caused by super prime altering reality from the paradise dimension by continually punching the barrier, causing temporal ripples throughout the rest of the universe.

Nick 47:18
Right and then Jason Todd

Kalvin 47:20
waste more crimes trapped and he’s just WreckIt Ralph in the ship.

Nick 47:26
Vary and yeah, Jason ties next time and I’m awake. And it has amnesia and goes to a hospital for a while.

Kalvin 47:33
Yes. And doesn’t tell you how Gould stumbled upon them.

Batman 47:37
Ah, I don’t recall.

Kalvin 47:40
I thought I read. Yeah, she’s trying to kill some His resurrection secret from Batman. While Roz is trying to figure out how he’s resurrected because he didn’t use the Lazarus Pit and all that bullshit.

Nick 47:51
Right? And some thug was like, yeah, that’s that might be Robin.

Batman 47:57
So convoluted. so dumb. Just not Yeah, he

Kalvin 48:00
didn’t die. Okay. He didn’t die. He’s here. Cool. He alive.

Unknown Speaker 48:03
Yeah. He’s been alive. portrayed by Jensen. ackles.

Kalvin 48:09
So do you have anything else you want to talk about on Jason Todd before we move to Tim Drake?

Nick 48:15
Now he’s kind of a little bitch. He was a redhead, bad boy.

Kalvin 48:21
cigarettes and he’s the opposite of a bitch.

Nick 48:23
Yeah, well as a bad ass. Right? He dyes his hair. His hair color is not black people. It’s strawberry blonde,

Kalvin 48:30
red. Well, so in postcrisis it says he’s black haired. So like the new back story. He has black hair.

Nick 48:38
Of course. It’s so much easier.

Kalvin 48:40
Yeah. But for a time in pre crisis, he started dyeing his hair black to look more like Dick Grayson. Right? Yeah,

Nick 48:49
he’s like, I love you dig. digs like dude.

Batman 48:52
I love tell you when I came out wrong. What? Hold on. Wait, is that why keep bringing teenagers into my house? I’m very confused.

Nick 49:03
Like, for it’s like, oh my god to him. From fucking Rachel.

Batman 49:12
Rachel. I know you’re gay. Right. Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 49:19
let’s move to Tim Drake. When did

Kalvin 49:24
Tim Drake first become Robin his first appearance as Tim Drake was Batman number 436. And then one one issues later in Batman number four Sir 457. He dons the Robin costume for the first time as August 1989. So about five years after Jason Todd took over. I think Jason Todd was 83 Yeah.

Nick 49:48
Tim Drake is the best Robin. I’m going to open up with that right now.

Kalvin 49:52
That is a question at the end Nick can’t jump to that yet.

Unknown Speaker 49:54
My bad

Kalvin 49:56
shit and Batman The Animated Series song he

Nick 49:59
he as annoying as shit because he, I mean he’s so I mean he’s a gene tell

Kalvin 50:04
us why he became Robin.

Nick 50:06
Robin Hood basically also extremely convoluted he was in the crowd when decreasing his parents died and he saw he saw a decrease in his routine and watched a fight between Batman Robin and the penguin on TV and saw a decrease in do a this I’m just gonna put this on the line folks this is off the top my head is all bullshit that I remember because it’s so good. I got no

Kalvin 50:33
dumb it’s all correct to where where you’re wrong in your

Nick 50:36
room. He sees Robin do a quadruple somersault which is only decreasing could ever do that. So he pieces together that Robin and Batman are Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson. And yeah, he’s

Kalvin 50:52
stalking Batman and Robin. Yes. quite some time at that big fan.

Nick 50:56
Yeah, big fan. In the reboot, though, he almost finds out that they’re Batman Robin.

Kalvin 51:04
Yeah, he never never does. So yeah.

Nick 51:06
But he’s basically he was obsessed with Batman as a figure in regards to his detective skills, his combat prowess, the acrobatic stuff like that. So he starts training himself at a young age. Yep. To be the perfect Batman.

Kalvin 51:22
Yes, that is all true. He has very good instincts from a detective point of view. So you know, he kind of like you said he, as he’s talking Batman and Robin he has. He uses his instinct of detective skills to figure out their identities. But like, really, it’s not that hard. They’re they’re very bad at hiding their identities for not trying to pay attention.

Nick 51:46
They act like jaw lines are ubiquitous between people around the world. Someone saw my jaw line. They’d be like, Yo, dude, what are you doing? Where do you get this sweet ass suit?

Kalvin 51:57
So the Green Lantern movie is bad and it is what it is. But like that’s the one thing he gets right is when he first in the Green Lantern suit. He goes to Blake Lively, and he’s talking to her and she’s like, how he’s like had you know, it was me. She’s like, your eyes are covered. I’m not a fucking moron.

Nick 52:18
Which is like literally,

Kalvin 52:19
yeah. So at least I got that right. Good job Green Lantern movie.

Nick 52:25
Good job. Green Lantern.

Kalvin 52:26
I kind of like the Green Lantern movie, but I like bad movies. So Tim also noticed that Batman had become reckless and violent after Jason Todd’s death. And he reasoned that Batman needs a Robin and so he first tries to convince dick to go back to being Robin. But dicks like nah, nah, I’m cool, bro. Yeah, blood haven.

Nick 52:49
He’s like I’m doing my own thing. I got plenty of chicks. Yeah, yeah, no, chicks

Kalvin 52:54
come to the Batcave. Let me warn you that right now here in blood haven chicks for days. They come to the wing cave. I

Batman 53:00
got chicks. What are you talking? I got

Nick 53:05
I’m gonna stop.

Kalvin 53:10
So then, his actions in an encounter with to face were witnessed by Alfred and Alfred convinces Batman to take him on as the third Robin and Tim actually comes from high class society. like Batman does. His parents are actually both alive for a time. But they’re absentee. They’re not there a lot. He they put him in a boarding school.

Nick 53:33
They’re like philanthropists or something like that.

Kalvin 53:35
They’re rich. That’s all I knew. And like mom’s Okay, you’re up and his dad’s doing this other shit. Yeah.

Nick 53:41
They’re cheating on each other. Oh, another one I I totally forgot about till just now is he hacked penguins, banking accounts, and donated a majority of his wealth to charity. So penguin put a lifelong hit on him. And Batman was like nada. You know, they go into witness protection. Look with my route. Right? And his parents are like, yo, Bruce, you are the guy to raise our child. You’re in. And he’s like, all right. I mean, I gotcha. All right, fam. Like, Oh, I thought you’re Batman there for a second. But

Batman 54:16
I was like, No, never got a call. Yeah.

Nick 54:21
battering out of his pocket. He’s like, trying to get a smoke.

Kalvin 54:25
So Batman eventually brings him on as an apprentice. First, it’s kind of just showing him the ropes had to be a better type of all that. But he would not use him in the field until after his mom died. So that’s really the prerequisite for being Robin you have to lose at least one parent, right? And the other has to be at least paralyzed and then it can be robbed before that you just get to hang out in the Batcave.

Nick 54:46
That’s about it. Yeah. And he made him train for six months underneath himself personally. So he mean, Tim Drake has had the best training.

Kalvin 54:55
Oh, absolutely. And he Tim Drake also read He’s Batman from something going on with Scarecrow and that’s what kind of finally turns into

Batman 55:05
like, Alright, you’re in.

Nick 55:07
You’re good. You’re You’re good. And now can I say my favorite line that Batman ever said about Robin?

Kalvin 55:12
Let’s hear it

Nick 55:13
or Tim Drake Robin. He has potential. He thinks he’s reckless but he honestly sees Tim Drake as the world’s greatest detective potentially even over himself. Like that’s how good this fucking kid right?

Kalvin 55:28
Yeah, he thinks that he will take over he may not take over the full mantle Batman but he’ll at least be on the level of world’s greatest detective at some point during breaking out from Batman. Some other accomplishments he gets a new modern costume and his own series. So this is the first one that gets the Robin title on the series.

Nick 55:48
That might be the 100 named issue run. Yes,

Batman 55:50
they could have.

Kalvin 55:51
He goes out solo to defend Gotham City when Batman retires. At one point he co founded Young Justice and reforms the Teen Titans at one point that was all I kind of got on him. And I was getting a little tired at this point in my notes, but I’m sure you know a lot more about what Tim Drake has done. So hit us with some other things.

Nick 56:08
I will keep it extremely simple. He’s donned the costume and identity of Red Robin on multiple occasions, which is basically just I mean, Robin, but not Robin. He’s got a dope cow.

Kalvin 56:26
Yeah, I mean, that’s his. That’s his. What’s he done after Robin is he goes on? He’s on his own being Red Robin,

Batman 56:32
I guess. Yeah.

Nick 56:35
I suppose. Really, I

Kalvin 56:37
bet I had my thought on how it worked, but I could be wrong.

Nick 56:41
My major accomplishment is that he figured out who the fuck Batman is.

Kalvin 56:44
Yeah, that’s good. Like,

Nick 56:45
I mean, that’s that was really one of the things that attracted me to Tim Drake them most in regards to, you know, being a dope ass Robin. And he has. he’s accomplished something that no one else has in the eyes of Batman, which is he has all the qualifications. He’s world’s greatest detective in the making. He’s also the best combatant of all the bat children, if you will, outside of Damian Wayne to a certain degree. Well, we haven’t got strategist, right. And basically the best well rounded, most empathetic and least troubled individual. So he’s the

Kalvin 57:24
most like Batman to coming from a rich family. Parents eventually die. Yeah, right

Nick 57:30
without that without the major Trump,

Kalvin 57:32
right. I mean, his parents do die eventually.

Batman 57:35
Everybody does man.

Kalvin 57:37
Well, that’s true. So he shot in front of stops being Robin when dick comes back takes over as Batman after birth is versus quote unquote, death. He fired him is Robin in favor of Damien. Thinking that Damian and Tim were equal in skill as far as Robins go.

Nick 57:58
I mean, physically, yes.

Kalvin 58:01
Right. But But dick doesn’t know as much about Tim at this point. Right. So it doesn’t really like kind of going on his personal preference and this is at a time I believe Tim Drake is in a depression after birth, his death, so like dick just doesn’t think he can handle it.

Nick 58:15
Well, that’s why he became Red Robin that his sole purpose was because he believed that Batman was still alive. Right? So his sole purpose was to find Bruce.

Batman 58:24
Yes, bring him home.

Kalvin 58:26
So that’s what he does. After dick fires him. He assumes the identity Red Robin leaves Gotham City believing Bruce Wayne still alive. He begins this worldwide search for him. And then after they eventually find them Batman’s back everything’s la dee da but Damien’s in the works now. He he works he still read Robin, but he does most mostly detective work like he does crime fighting, but it’s it’s more detective based, and kind of assist the bat family in that way when they need it. So let’s move quickly to Stephanie Brown and this will should by far be the quickest one

Nick 59:01
I would say so.

Kalvin 59:04
Her first appearance is Detective Comics number 647 as her first appearance as spoiler which is a different heroes Detective Comics number 648 that’s may 2004. And then as Robin she shows up in Robin number 126 and that that’s Tim Drake’s run. Why did she become Robin?

Nick 59:24
Thought Tim Drake was fucking cheated on her. Yeah,

Kalvin 59:27
she volunteers become Robin after Tim had resigned for the first time. She was previously her own superhero spoiler and Tim’s girlfriend but she discovered that Tim was quote unquote cheating on her but not really. She gets pissed. makes her own Robin costume breaks into the Batcave and demands dick make her the new Robin. Using our she’s a dick. I’m Robin, what’s up?

Nick 59:53
He’s like, Hey, I like it. You have boobs.

Kalvin 1:00:00
Not many accomplishments from Stephanie Brown,

Nick 1:00:03
she wrote,

Kalvin 1:00:05
she disobeyed Batman twice. Wikipedia is kind of fuzzy on the details of disobeying him twice in the field, but that that kept coming up but on her way out, and so that forces dick to fire her as Robin because she just keeps not listening to him. She steals one of Bruce’s plans to control crime in Gotham City and attempts to execute it. However, this plan involves one of Bruce’s alter egos, and since Bruce is dead, it spirals out of control quickly resulting in a citywide gang war and she gets captured by black mask, like hatches hallahan

Nick 1:00:37
are some

Kalvin 1:00:39
matches, Malone.

Nick 1:00:41
Matches mullet hatches hallahan Where did I get that done? Man? I don’t know.

Kalvin 1:00:46
I mean, it’s it’s really just as good bass patches. Oh hoolahan from dodgeball

Nick 1:00:52
it will Yeah. Or patch when Wolverine played patch could be but uh yeah she she disobeyed dig in extremely dangerous situations that resulted in severe bodily harm for multiple people. Yeah, he’s like you fucking suck dog. And she ends up getting fucking beat to death too. Well, maybe sleep Yeah,

Kalvin 1:01:15
pretty much first fired by Batman before putting that plan in for participating in the field twice so then she puts the plan in doesn’t work without matches Malone because like that Batman had been pretending to be a Bruce Wayne had been pretending to be matches Malone for decades, building up this underground. The street cred in the underground, right. And everybody thinks matches Malone is this is as bad as guy. But then when he’s not there to actually make this plan go forward. Everyone thinks something’s up black mask captures her tortures her and she escapes barely within an inch of her life, gets to a hospital and dies in a hospital bed with Batman sitting by her side. And then Batman learns that Dr. Leslie Tompkins had withheld a life saving treatment from Stephanie as a warning to Gotham’s use, intending to follow and Stephanie’s exam. So she’s like, we don’t want kids showing up here. Because they are beat down by a gangster. So we’re not going to save anything.

Nick 1:02:22
Sorry, Honey, you’re gonna die. Yeah, cuz I’m trying to prove a point.

Kalvin 1:02:26
Because as a doctor, it’s not my job to save people. So I don’t know why you think it is. You know,

Nick 1:02:33
I mean, hippocratic oaths and yeah, all that good stuff.

Kalvin 1:02:38
So what did you do after Robin? She’s dead again.

Nick 1:02:41
She’s dead, she becomes another hero for like five seconds.

Kalvin 1:02:46
Yet she appears as a ghost to Batgirl Cassandra Cain Batgirl a couple times during some some near death appearance, experiences by Cassandra Cain. And then she was so what I gathered is she reappears as spoiler which was her first superhero moniker. Apparently, Lee Tompkins had faked her death and helped her move to Africa where she was acting as a vigilante there. And like Batman and Robin are trying to track down some thief or something and they run into somebody dressed a spoiler, they don’t think it’s her. convoluted, convoluted convoluted, it is her she never died, blah, blah, blah.

Nick 1:03:21
We can’t kill any of these people will just graphically attempt to.

Kalvin 1:03:26
Yeah, well, we’ll kill him for a few years and then they’ll be back.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:29
Yeah, they’re moneymakers. Exactly.

Kalvin 1:03:33
Death and return from the death are your biggest seller. So why are you not gonna keep doing

Nick 1:03:37
pretty much those are at least two issues we will sell the shit out of exactly.

Kalvin 1:03:43
Have you got anything else in Stephanie Brown?

Nick 1:03:45
No, not really. She’s pretty short. Simple.

Kalvin 1:03:49
So the the final Robin in the main continuity continuity is Damian Wayne. And you know, I told you this before we started recording, but I gotta tell the listeners so I’m not gonna lie here. I’ve mailed in the research completely on Damien. I was just kind of over it by this point. I was in a hotel room last night doing this research. And I just I think that’s kind of sums up how people feel about Damien in general. So I don’t I don’t mind that I mailed in the research on Damien.

Nick 1:04:17
No, and I will I’ll fill in all you need to know about Damien white. Two words. Fuck him. There’s There you go.

Kalvin 1:04:30
So that annoying Tim Drake that I’m remembering from the Batman animated series. They basically just did that with Damian Wayne and brought him into the comics

Nick 1:04:38
dial that should up to five.

Kalvin 1:04:41
Yeah, and and now he’s a murderous assassin psychopath. Well, he’s

Nick 1:04:45
got much more hubris than Tim Drake ever did. Yeah. So his fucker.

Kalvin 1:04:50
first appearance is in Batman, son of the demon. Then He first appears as Robin in Batman number 657. That’s November 2006. So let’s see only two years after Stephanie.

Nick 1:05:04
Yeah. Pretty quickly.

Kalvin 1:05:07
Yeah. Why does he become Robin? So Damien is genetically perfected and grown in an artificial artificial womb unbeknownst to his father, Bruce Wayne, raised by his mother, Talia al Ghul, and the League of Assassins. When he finally becomes a formidable martial artist as a teenager, Talia reveals him to Bruce as the son and just dips out, leaving him with Bruce to disrupt everything Batman’s doing,

Nick 1:05:34
literally drugged and raped Batman got knocked up, raised a murderer, and then was just like, here you go. And Bruce was like, I’ll take him.

Kalvin 1:05:46
Yeah, so he battles with Tim Drake for a while to replace him as Robin. But he’s he’s kind of misguided and all of his efforts and he seems to genuinely want to aid in versus war on crime because he’s Bruce’s son and just wants his approval he tries to killed kit Tim Drake a couple times because he doesn’t really understand how civilized society works.

Nick 1:06:09
He has zero concept civilized.

Kalvin 1:06:11
He just keeps trying to fucking kill off so

Nick 1:06:13
he can be Robin router ways and in his mind, he’s just like, but I thought that’s what Yeah, survival of the fittest

Kalvin 1:06:20
your heir to the demond when the demon dies, you’re the demon so

Nick 1:06:26
go die.

Kalvin 1:06:27
Yeah. Dick Grayson as Batman choose Damien as Robin over Tim Drake. We kind of mentioned that in the Tim Drake section. So that’s how he finally gets to become Robin. It’s not even under Bruce. It’s Dix like yeah, sure, whatever. I’ll give you a chance.

Nick 1:06:41
Here young man. The reason being is Damian Wayne is a super for men double Robin. He is literally like having a one man army. This dude is so good at killing.

Kalvin 1:06:56
I was like playing with him in the injustice games. Never

Nick 1:06:59
played the Justice games. But I’ve enjoyed the comic book aspect of it because Deke racing lives much more in a world of gray as Batman than the black and white contrast that Bruce has. So having Damian Wayne, who is literally not on any registry, he is not on any citizenship. He has no fingerprints, no dinner records. Not he is a ghost. Much more of a black ops soldier than I think they, you know, ultimately, lead on is just like, yeah, here’s an atomic bomb. I’m gonna unleash on you. That’s not traceable. Yeah,

Kalvin 1:07:38
and it worked. I mean, he’s, yeah, pretty much he’s he’s a bad MCs annoying, but he’s a badass.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:43
He’s so fucking tired.

Kalvin 1:07:44
So some of his accomplishments I this is where I where I kind of just gave up looking at blocks and blocks of Wikipedia texts that I couldn’t make sense of, because it’s such a convoluted mess. He He’s got no respect for Dick Grayson is Batman. He decides he’s just kind of be an independent Robin and he just keeps going after Tim Drake no matter what he even even when Tim Drake’s like, fine. I’m not Robin. I’m Red Robin. I’m this other thing. Damian just keeps going after.

Nick 1:08:12
He constantly is making comments anytime they’re around each other. Very subtle comments that are not subtle at all, actually.

Kalvin 1:08:20
So do you have any real accomplishments better than than what I put together here?

Nick 1:08:24
Really no major, like defeats of villains or anything like that? Mostly, his major accomplishments are besting every other. You know, Robin under the battery, as well as did Grayson. I think the only reason he lets him become Robin is he knows that if he does it.

Kalvin 1:08:45
He’s not going to go away.

Nick 1:08:47
No, Damien’s just going to come after him. And I don’t think he’s confident in the fact that he could defeat Damian in a one on one straight up match because Damien is an extremely brilliant tactician, especially at guerrilla tactics which are like Batman’s bread and butter, you know, Shadow strike stuff like that. That is Damien’s forte. So in a one on one matchup, I think Dick Grayson be completely out of his fucking element. And it would just be a bloodbath. So it’s like yeah, I’ll let you be Robin in the back of his head. He’s like, Fuck, this kid’s gonna kill me.

Kalvin 1:09:24
So he isn’t technically stop being Robin. I guess he is he does die and gets resurrected. But once he’s resurrected, he’s right back to being Robin. So he and he’s the current Robin. So

Nick 1:09:38
we’ll see how long that lasts.

Kalvin 1:09:40
Yeah, sure. Bruce has got another son out there. He’s gonna have a kid with Selina Kyle now that they’re married. You know, something’s gonna happen.

Nick 1:09:46
something’s gonna happen. That was also

Kalvin 1:09:48
gonna get to B 16 or 17. And you know, he’s not gonna warm around anymore. Batman doesn’t like old kids. He likes young

Batman 1:09:54
like, gross, teenage teenagers.

Nick 1:09:58
You really fill out that Are you tired and I hate it?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:06

Kalvin 1:10:07
so you’ve already answered this but we’re into what would you do? Who is your favorite version of Robin and why

Nick 1:10:12
motherfucking Tim? Right. Couple literally, dude is the world’s greatest detective and an extremely brilliant tactician in combat and at the same time, I think he is the most well rounded of all the bat family.

Kalvin 1:10:29
Well, I helped he had his own his own book, which helps a lot there. I like decoration, but I think it’s just because I know the most about him. He’s the one that shows up in most popular like more popular media than you know, just comic books. Right, but I actually think I like him as Nightwing more than I like him as

Nick 1:10:46
Robin 100% dude 50%

Kalvin 1:10:49
you know, along that same line, I think the the backstory of Dick was flat flesh out the most going into it out of all the Robins and he always just like anything I saw man, he felt really cool. And I know that’s not the case in comics, but like watching Batman The Animated Series. No, in the comics,

Nick 1:11:09
he was like the hottie. Yeah, those those the go to?

Kalvin 1:11:14
Yeah, and even like crystal Donald’s portrayal of him like he was supposed to in the 90s. Like, that’s what a cool guy was.

Nick 1:11:20
Right. Right. Motorcycle leather jacket. cyberdata helmet.

Kalvin 1:11:25
Yeah, earring. Yeah, earring. Yeah. So like they always they always portrayed him as like the cool cat to Batman’s, you more serious guy. And I always kind of like that. But I agree with you. I think Tim Drake is probably the most interesting of the Robins and he’s got the best origin and basically just stalking Batman and Robin until they take him on. And he also seemed like he’s the most genuinely helpful and all the others are more or less forced into that life and he’s there. He wants to help Batman and Robin, he wants to help Batman become better. Whereas Dick Grayson, you know, he offers his help. But he’s also put in a position where that’s his only choice to his right. I live with Bruce Wayne. So I have to be that like Tim Drake never needed Bruce Wayne for anything. But he knew Batman needed him. And and so

Nick 1:12:18
I like that, you know, he was getting too reckless and too violent and he needed a Robin and no one else would do it. And you know, I think decorations every other Robin was in the game to fight crime. You know, I think it’s really that was the big thing for them was the the fights the the adrenaline pumping stuff for them. It was just it was all about the detective aspect. And that was what I loved about him Because ultimately, Batman is the world’s greatest detective. That’s what makes him so fucking cool.

Kalvin 1:12:52
I agree. So what is your favorite post Robin career?

Nick 1:12:57
I mean, Nightwing play it’s it’s not even close. Nightwing

Kalvin 1:13:00
red hooded is pretty close. Second.

Nick 1:13:03
Red Hood is okay. He’s just had a history of terrible writers. Yeah. Like,

Kalvin 1:13:08
I’m not coming from a comics background, right? I’m coming from, you know, Arkham games and under the Red Hood and things like that, where I think the origin of Red Hood is interesting in that he was he was, quote unquote, killed by Joker. And then he’s on this vengeance plot against Batman. And then he kind of comes to terms with what Batman is and what Batman is done. But also, he doesn’t want to go that far and be that soft. So he’s the next level of Batman.

Nick 1:13:40
He’s sort of Red Hood. Yeah. Which I think I mean, I agree. I think Red Hood is really really cool but he’s just had a lot of shit riders in the comics. And it’s it’s kind of taken away from me whereas Nightwing is rebirth series. I think I have like the first 30 something issues. Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic with like reverse Nightwing and stuff like that. Also arrange probably check out

Kalvin 1:14:09
for you red nightlinger blue Nightwing

Nick 1:14:12
I think read Nightwing looks cooler. Yeah, that’s just me. Do you know he know what, you know which one I’m talking about? Right? Well,

Kalvin 1:14:21

Nick 1:14:23
The first Nightwing

Kalvin 1:14:24
Is that what it is? I don’t know. So I have I think I have four Nightwing toys now. Five or six? that about half of them have the blue insignia and half of them have the red insignia and I can’t decide which one I like better.

Nick 1:14:39
I’m not sure if night wings had red and continuity But yeah, I know his like alternate murderous version more red.

Kalvin 1:14:47
Okay. I just like the toys.

Nick 1:14:51
I mean, the toys are dope as shit. Yes, costume is fucking awesome. He’s got batanes and his his acrobatic combat style is just This shit.

Kalvin 1:15:01
Yeah, it’s a lot of fun to watch. And it’s a lot of fun to like in the Arkham games you can play as Nightwing on some side missions and stuff. That’s, that’s always one of the more fun characters to go under. Because in the last one you could do Nightwing Red Robin or Batgirl, I think, and Nightwing is always the best to play with.

Nick 1:15:18
Oh, hell yeah,

Kalvin 1:15:19
red Robins cool. He’s still got the the like the bo staff. But it’s not as fun as Nightwing where you can have the bo staff or break it into the separate batanes

Nick 1:15:29
Yeah, and I mean, Tim Drake is much better with the bo staff. And pretty much anyone any of the other bad family is with weapons, but I love those two little nunchucks basically.

Kalvin 1:15:38
Yeah. So I agree with Nightwing. I like the idea of you learn everything you need to know under Batman and then you strike out on your own and I kind of did this to to a certain extent. But I just feel like Nightwing is a little bit cooler than Tim. Like he’s kind of fucking nerd.

Batman 1:15:55
nerd, dweeb.

Nick 1:15:56
He’s fucking book.

Kalvin 1:15:59
nerds. We are pro nerd.

Nick 1:16:01
We are literally nerds talking right now.

Kalvin 1:16:05
Yeah, I mean, we just did like an hour and 10 minutes on fucking Robins and I’m calling somebody else a nerd.

Batman 1:16:14
Fucking nerd.

Nick 1:16:15
Nerd Star Trek, the real nerds.

Kalvin 1:16:20
So, here’s the final question is probably the most important if you’re an orphan, in a billionaire takes you in and says wart. And then you found out that that billionaire dressed up as a bat and fought crime every night. And then that billionaire asked you to help him with dressing up and fighting crime. Would you help him or would you call social services?

Nick 1:16:39
I’d 100% help him. Like, dude, this sounds sweet. To me that dope ass costume.

Kalvin 1:16:46
Let me drive so how long would you last helping him?

Nick 1:16:49
Dude, I probably last a while on a week. No, no, I probably last until I got shot.

Kalvin 1:16:55
You have no martial arts training.

Nick 1:16:57
I took some Taekwondo. Okay.

Kalvin 1:17:00
You have very limited martial arts training. You’re not acrobatic? I can I can just I’ve seen you. I can tell you’re not Acrobat. I have

Nick 1:17:07
great balance. Did you

Kalvin 1:17:10
want Have you watched the first episode of Captain America or Falcon in the winter? Yes, I did. So they bring that up spoilers. Kind of it’s not really a plot point. But at one point, Sam Wilson is he’s helping his family who’s struggling with money. It’s somebody like so how does that work? Does Tony pay you guys when he’s around or like d? d get loans? Like what’s going on? And he’s like, he’s in a bank trying to ask for a loan. And he’s like, No, I’m here. hoping somebody helps me.

Nick 1:17:37
I mean, that’s great. You know who I am? Come on now.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:41
Yeah, that so excited for that series?

Kalvin 1:17:43
He’s not good as well. No, he

Batman 1:17:45
doesn’t spoilers. Fuck that dude. Yeah.

Kalvin 1:17:49
Do you have anything else you want to say on Robin before we move on for the day?

Nick 1:17:53
I’m ready for him to take the next step. As a character overall. I think Damian Wayne’s played out.

Kalvin 1:17:59
We need a new What was that? What I say? 2006. Yeah, that’s 15 years Damien. Wait, I’m just let’s move on

Batman 1:18:06
man. Fucking all Yeah, I’m

Nick 1:18:13
ready to move on. Yeah,

Kalvin 1:18:14
let’s move on from Damian. Yeah. There’s got to be some kid out there. kicking it around. Bruce go find them.

Batman 1:18:21
I just want to find the kids on the street. I got it. Don’t worry. I will save them all. Because I that man didn’t and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then a Batman. That’s right.

Kalvin 1:18:34
Thank you for listening. If you’re still there after that great rendition of the Batman theme song.

Nick 1:18:39
They close it at that point. That’s that’s not fuckin ticket.

Kalvin 1:18:46
You can follow us on Twitter at APA something at lone underscore podcast at Batman. And you can check out our T public store teepublic.com search podcast about something get all kinds of cool stuff with our logo on it. Leave us a review on iTunes if you want. That’s cool. But as always the music provided by those cats. You

Nick 1:19:07
guys stay sassy. Stay classy

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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