Episode 99 – A Podcast About The Crypts of Winterfell (ASOIAF)

In a series full of mysterious situations, places, and people, one place, in particular, is often glossed over, but absolutely deserves a deep dive: The Crypts of Winterfell from A Song of Ice and Fire. Return to Westeros with Kalvin and Nick, to the far north where the Starks keep watch over the icy kingdom, an ancient clan full of magic and mystery. Where they bury their dead might not seem too important, but looks can be deceiving! Considered ancient in an ancient world, we dive into who built the crypts, why they’re important, some of the major events that occurred in the novels and TV show, and what mysteries they still have hiding in their cold, dark depths.

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See below for a full episode transcript!

Kalvin 0:06
Hello and welcome to Podcast, where each week we dive deep into whatever it is we find interesting. I’m your host Calvin and joining me from at least six feet away. It’s your co host, Nick Richardson.

Nick 0:21
You know who else is six feet away? These dead people that are buried down and they’re so wonderful.

Kalvin 0:25
Yeah, that’s what we’re actually talking about, but everybody needs to be safe and six feet away. We’re always at least six feet away. So that worked out easy for us.

Unknown Speaker 0:33
It did.

Kalvin 0:34
There will hopefully be no break in a podcast about something except last week that I was just because vacations and things not because of coronavirus.

Nick 0:41
Correct. I thought we are helpless. Yeah, no, it does scare me but stay well. Yes. Be smart.

Unknown Speaker 0:48
Wash your hands. Yeah, but that’s

Kalvin 0:50
really all you have to do. Don’t don’t like touch somebody else’s snot. You’ll be good.

Nick 0:56
If you have kids. Well me young kids. I get covered in snot daily, before all that good shit. So it’s like, yeah,

Kalvin 1:04
I guess as far as we keep telling our kids keep their hands out of their faces, and they like listen for 10 seconds and then put them back in the face. But all of a sudden, they’ve really liked putting their hands in my face, which is not something they did prior to this. We could have

Unknown Speaker 1:19
a look. It’s just

Kalvin 1:20
in the last three weeks, they’ve decided to start like putting their hands in my mouth and nose out of nowhere.

Nick 1:25
They’re gonna take it to the next level next week and be like, Hey, Dad, guess where my hands was? That’s probably already true. So you should just ask them very squarely next time be like, Where’s that heaven? Nowhere.

Kalvin 1:41
Alright, so that’s all of our coronavirus talk. That’s it. That was the whole episode on coronavirus. We’re moving on to the actual episode now the crypts of Winterfell mostly we’re talking from the Song of Ice and Fire book series, not

Nick 1:56
the show. There Let me just say this there was way more information about the crypto winter fo when I started doing research than I had any idea there was

Kalvin 2:08
Yes. So the show just did not do it justice. No, it didn’t. And like there’s way, way more in depth in the books and in the the lore surrounding the books. You know, whether it’s in the world by some fire or wiki by some fire, there’s just so much more that goes into it and the shows just like yeah, they’re there and Leon is buried there. Yes, sometimes Sansa and Arya walked down there to have a conversation.

Nick 2:31
There might be magical properties, but we’re not going we’re not gonna deal

Kalvin 2:36
with anything about it. You’re not gonna deal with any of that. Fuck magic. What is the only thing this is a fantasy show called? No? Yes. Watch. It doesn’t exist here.

Nick 2:44
Are you taking a piss? Because it doesn’t exist?

Kalvin 2:47
Yeah, no. All right, so let’s start with where are the crypts of Winterfell actually located?

Unknown Speaker 2:55
Sorry, is

Kalvin 2:57
there any Winterfell but they’re actually like below undergrad. Winterfell they are behind an iron wood doorway which is located in the oldest section Winterfell near the first keep and lit yard and are only accessible by a narrow narrow winding spiral stone steps.

Nick 3:13
Fun fact I kind of went down a rabbit hole and discovered iron wood I had never really it never really stuck in my brain all that much. Give it to us because I didn’t go down that rabbit hole. Well apparently this this individual who you know put all this information together believe that ironwood was kind of like the polar opposite of a weirwood tree and it you know it it’s leaves or whatever. Basically turned into like a potion that was very similar to what you would get for if you drank the weirwood tree leaves and as you ran does and yes exactly chapter it’s whatever denarius drank in the house of the undying I forget what the hell it’s called. That

Kalvin 3:53
was a shade of the night. Yeah,

Nick 3:56
exactly. So that’s what they were saying is that it was An ironwood tree and that it has a lot more properties than was previously understood. And they made this on YouTube they did a pretty good job of presenting information interesting interesting. Check it out people they go

Kalvin 4:16
yeah you don’t have like a YouTuber was or anything like that

Nick 4:19
if you give me one second I will tell you folks right now because I stumbled on to part two. Its Secrets of the Citadel is the YouTuber.

Kalvin 4:29
Now right?

Nick 4:30
Check it out. It’s actually a female

Kalvin 4:33
check her out sorry

Nick 4:34
You bastard Yeah, that’s virus and then this shit Calvin you know or

Kalvin 4:39
going into Game of Thrones Song of Ice and Fire very male heavy environments. You know the patriarchy still high up going on in this world. So it’s just got me in a in a world thinking you know, everything’s male dominated here and a TIFF? Yes in a TIFF. So the cups of Wonder fell. were built Thousands of years ago as Winterfell was also built under under the ground many thousands years or many thousands of years before, when the current books and show are taking place.

Nick 5:14
Get about 8000 is what I stumbled upon brand builder, that boiler

Kalvin 5:20
he built Winterfell he built the wall he built the high tower he built Dragonstone a lot of building going on stories over storms and

Nick 5:30
yeah, he did. He did a lot of good shit. And what’s weird is I guess Winterfell was turned down

Kalvin 5:34
is the one I was thinking I’m not Dragonstone

Nick 5:36
sorry. No, you’re good. But I guess he kind of built it piecemeal originally and something I also stumbled upon in a separate rabbit hole is the the Crypts were basically built from the ground up from the old weirwood tree roots that are they’re like they’re so ancient, they turned to stone and that’s kind of what they use is like The tunnels or whatever that they work through, okay, and then kind of built around that weirwood tree. And that’s how Winterfell kind of came to be. Brand new builder just took that to the next level.

Kalvin 6:11
Yeah, it was a good builder.

Nick 6:13
I imagine with that name, there’s, you know, there’s great builders out there. There’s Bob the Builder, you got a TV show Bran the Builder. I mean, he might appear in a future TV show. We don’t know yet.

Kalvin 6:24
I feel like that show is not like none of those spin off shows are ever gonna happen.

Nick 6:30
I mean, aren’t they in production? Well, everything’s halted right now.

Kalvin 6:34
I just like, I don’t think people care anymore, especially after a lukewarm season eight like I don’t even expect us to get like because when we did the last couple of Game of Thrones Song of Ice and Fire episodes, we got pretty good, listens on it, but Game of Thrones was still huge. I’ll be interested to see if this does those same kind of numbers, just because it’s kind of out of the popular opinion right now. Nobody cares about nobody’s going after the books. Who knows if they’re ever going to be finished or you know or even being worked on right now? They are he came out and said he’s working on them rapidly I’d hope I mean you’re locked up bro Yeah, you got the fucking quarantine man

Nick 7:12
world pandemic to get your old

Kalvin 7:14
Jude seems like you have breathing problems you just stay inside right

Unknown Speaker 7:19
it’s on a heavy like come on dude

Kalvin 7:21
heavy set. So yeah another cool thing like that’s what I like about this world is you’ve already gone down to rabbit holes and we’re on our third point the outline like it’s just endlessly rabbit holing Oh yeah, I could go so much further with that stuff too. And, and that’s that is really fun about this world is the endless rabbit holes. Each thing has its own like unique backstory and history behind it that you can go into and see like just ironwood it’s just like a random building material that All right, let’s see what it is and it’s got all this backstory. That’s kind of what Star Wars was like. Back in the day. too is like every minor character that showed up or droid or piece of something have this intricate backstory that you could just dive deep in endlessly so that’s why we’re back here

Nick 8:11
oh yeah I love world building and George RR Martin built a great world

Kalvin 8:16
yeah and you know go along with how they built it from that where wood tree the vault underneath Winterfell is actually larger than Winterfell itself and like you said they built it from the inside out i guess is how you would say it the older Starks are buried in the deepest darkest levels and then the more recently deceased are buried towards the front like where that iron wood doorway is that’s more of the more recent deaths are and then there’s even empty tombs and empty space for future Starks as well. So they planned it out apparently

Nick 8:47
they did a fucking good job and I’m curious to see how far they planned it out because they many more Starks can die before they run out of room. Right I mean, how deep is this shit because it think of 1000 years of generation Have people living in the north living hard living like shit? Probably living in their 40s 50s so a lot of generations a lot, you know that well that their feet apart, they recognize safety, you know how it is they recognize safety, bro.

Kalvin 9:17
So that’s really what that you know that’s the the main thing we want to talk about is what’s actually in there, what significance do they play in the larger story and we’re gonna get deep into some theories about what their importance is and kind of what the show did with that but first we have to say what’s in there and that’s, you know, tombs of the members of house start. That’s all that’s there. The other Winterfell aliens, they get buried somewhere else this is only for how Stark or like people who married into house start. So on occasion did something like extraordinary for how Stark right Yeah, that’s a good point. So all the family members have tombs inside the crypts, but statues are carved out stone statues are traditionally only made for the kings in the north or the Lords of Winterfell all these statues have stone direwolf curled at their feet with long iron swords laid it across each Lord’s lap to keep vengeful spirits within the crypt

Nick 10:15
be so intense yeah

Kalvin 10:19
well it’s weird to think about like early in the story all the star kids like we’re just like they play down there all the time. Like that’s their play places they go down there and they have fun they play like i’d seek and come into the castle and all that shit. Fucking weirdos man Yeah, start start kids have some issues.

Nick 10:34
Yeah, all these dead people down here man. It’s cool down here. I like you. Tell me one foot in the grave those star kids.

Kalvin 10:42
And the most recent tombs inside the crypts belong to Lord Ricard Stark and his children Brandon and Liana, who are the brother and sister of at art Stark, who also has a tomb and a statue down there, but his bones aren’t actually there yet because they never made it back to Winterfell. And it’s a little bit Because Brandon Liana, they have statues but they weren’t kings. They weren’t lords. And that kind of piece has led to many theories about why exactly the statues were built. Especially in the case of Liana. Oh, it’s one thing of Brandon because he was an heir and he died early. So like, Alright, let’s give him a statue. But there aren’t many statues of women down there. So Liana having a statue is very unique and very, hopefully significant. Yeah, as far as I could tell.

Nick 11:31
I couldn’t find any other women buried down there. And I mean, with Brandon, he basically died at the same time as as their father so he was the Lord for like a second. He

Unknown Speaker 11:45
ran and died

Nick 11:46
first. Now he strangled himself trying to get to his father.

Kalvin 11:50
Right. Okay. Yeah, I couldn’t remember who was in which place because he was getting burned alive. Right. The father was getting burned and Brandon was had like a rope around his neck with a sword just out of reach. So he was trying to get to the sword as Ricard burned.

Nick 12:06
Yeah, that’s fucking awful. Yeah. So I mean, Mad King areas was not a good dude. Yeah, he was a he was a piece of shit. So haven’t definitely haven’t heard down there is significant and the only thing that I could possibly think of is she’s the mother to the true king. Right? You know what I mean? That’s the only thing that can go on.

Kalvin 12:28
But I wouldn’t see that. Let’s hold off on that thought for a minute, though, for when we get into the theories, because that’s gonna be important there.

Nick 12:34
Okay, okay. I will wait, sir.

Kalvin 12:37
We don’t want to we don’t bury the whole thing right here in a 12 minute, Mark, we got a lot more to talk about. Hit me, I think. So let’s talk about why the crypts are important. What role have they played in the stories thus far? what’s already happened there and why is any of this stuff important? So the first thing that happens, I’m gonna go chronologically through the history. of Westeros, not chronologically, through when we learned about it in the books. Does that make sense?

Unknown Speaker 13:05
Make sense? Okay,

Kalvin 13:07
so the first thing chronologically in the history of Westeros is the tale of Bale, the Bard. Love it. And this is the story that ygritte tells john during a Clash of Kings when they first when john first meets her, and like he’s supposed to kill her, but he doesn’t. So she tells him the story about the bar because she says, you know, we’re all related, we all share blood do to bail the Bard. And so that story goes, I’m going to give a try and be a brief synopsis. Below the bar disappeared from Winterfell with the daughter of Lord Brandon Stark leaving behind only one blue winter rose. bale had received this rose as a gift for impressing the Lord with his singing. And he was there he was a King in the North who came down and he basically just wanted to try to infiltrate, but prove he could infiltrate Winterfell and he did any posed as a as a singer and pressed the Lord Got a gift from him and then basically sold his daughter

Unknown Speaker 14:07
what it did

Kalvin 14:10
prove his point though. So Lord start sends out the night What nightwatch ranging me on the wall he thinks, you know this guy stoner and gone beyond the wall. They never find all of a sudden. Let’s give it let’s say nine months later, give or take. She randomly appears back in her room holding an infant child.

Nick 14:29
Goddamnit is every father’s worst nightmare.

Kalvin 14:31
Yeah, that’s rough. Apparently they never left Winterfell but actually they had hidden in the crypts the whole time. And this was this child was supposedly bails bastard with the Lord’s daughter and he one day became the new Lord Stark, yada yada yada. A few years go on about 30 bale becomes King beyond the wall and leaves the wildling south and then they come into battle with Winterfell and his son is leading the Winterfell armies at the frozen forward bale the bar just you know he basically renders gives himself up, allows himself to be killed by Lord start because he knows that his son he can’t fight his own son.

Nick 15:10
No such sad story

Kalvin 15:11
this Lord Stark who’s never named is brought back or brings bales head back to Winterfell shows it to his mother and she leaps off the talus tower killing herself because she was so in love with Bill Barr.

Nick 15:24
That dude must have had the sweetest pipes.

Kalvin 15:27
Yes, saying I mean they spent nine months down in those trips together to so get to know someone and isolation. We’re gonna really find out what we know about each other here, when we’re all locked up in the grips of our home for the next several months, so

Nick 15:41
I can imagine find out my wife is sick and my eyes

Kalvin 15:45
are like, Alright, babies are gonna go up and divorces are gonna go up.

Nick 15:49
Fuck me and apparently in China divorces are up like crazy

Kalvin 15:53
after people got to spend time together. Yeah. don’t have anything talks about your time with my wife. Not in a crypto it’d be creepy. Not at all. I agree with you the cryptid be creepy i’d love spending time with my wife. So the story this is all important because the story of bill the Bard it helps Mance rayder in his sphere wives and infiltrate Winterfell when they need to when the Bolton’s have control and it also the part about him hiding in the crypts inspires brand and Asha to hide their when Theon invaded and it also I think, is trying to play a part into manses overall scheme, but they don’t get to that point because theanine kind of cock blocks him on that he can’t walk someone that’s super hard. Except he has no COC to block with and he has no desire to be addicted.

Nick 16:40
Oh, and sorry, you know, in in the TV show. Just you know. Apparently Ramsey insinuated he might have made his dick maybe. Who knows? I don’t think I was talking with him. I hope not.

Kalvin 16:54
Yeah, you never know with Ramsey though.

Nick 16:56
I would give someone so much shit like this may sound weird. This is a rabbit hole but as someone Cut, cut my wiener off and then acted like they were eating in front of you. It’s like Dude, you’re gross like, is wrong with you, so,

Kalvin 17:09
yeah Ramsey’s gross and Theon was not really in a position to tell him he’s gross.

Nick 17:15
Would it be I was just like, Man, you fucking

Kalvin 17:18
would you do that? Yeah, what the fuck? That was my dick. You’re gay free.

The next thing that happens historically that at least that we know about is Robert and Ned visit Leona’s tomb when Robert King Robert comes to visit Ned and ask him to be his hand. This is actually our first introduction in the story to the crypts, and Ned notices that some of the oldest long swords the iron, long swords have laid across the king’s lap, have brought it to nothing. That to me, that’s important because those statues are no longer protected from you. Evil Spirits rising

Nick 18:01
that I mean that signifies if he’s kind of on the same level as Liana imagine with you know humanity and stuff like that but the time

Kalvin 18:13
yeah how bad is the stuff deeper and darker?

Nick 18:16
Yeah super haunted bro super.

Kalvin 18:19
Yeah, so that I feel like those swords are gonna come to be important at some point. But again we’ll get that when we get to the theorizing. The next thing we have that happens in the crypts throughout our story is brand RIKEN Asha jojen Mira and hold or hide in the crypts to what the next important thing there are some little things that happen that we’ll we’ll kind of talk about at the end of just like here’s some other bits that happen. So this is an important thing that happened they all hit their when fee on sacked Winterfell and went after the boys and tried to kill them and to kind of kick this off when children First appears in a Clash of Kings he tells brand that he had a green dream of him raking in the crypts, and Brandon Rick and are like well shit. We’re not ready to die like Yeah, but they think that means they’re prophesized to die and it actually comes to fruition that they just hide there for a couple weeks.

Nick 19:19
Yeah, that they did not do that justice either. Like how long they genuinely split their

Kalvin 19:23
I don’t know. I never think it was a Reddit. I think it was hard because it was hard in the show, because they just showed two small boys being burned at the end of an episode. So I think like you have to resurrect them at the end of the next episode. But in the books it’s several chapter like it’s half a book I want to say that they’re that they’re down there and you’re just like, and you don’t know that Theon killed the other kids you you still think he killed them. So they, they let it breathe a little bit more in the books,

Nick 19:55
which it suited them suited it well.

Kalvin 19:58
And so once they On the city he refuses to allow Mr. Lewin to bury the bodies of Brandon raking in the crypts. Theon does this because they’re not actually starts like he knows they’re not starts and it would be kind of sacrilegious to bury these other kids down there, but it also serves the purpose to it narratively to keep people out of the crypts where Brandon rakin are hiding because we don’t know they’re down there hiding. So if Mr. Lewin goes down there he’s gonna like oh shit. Hey, guys. Yeah, I got your body’s here. Uh, well this is awkward. Yeah. And they in the show they run into me saloon on their way out. I’m pretty sure my salons long dead by the time they get out in the books. So you know, it was nice that they got that last for unit before he died in the in the show.

Nick 20:43
True like seconds before he died.

Kalvin 20:45
Yeah. So then we see brand Ricky and Mira, jojen, Asha and Hodor. They survived the onset all of a sudden like there’s all of a sudden a brand chapter I don’t know if we have several non branch chapters because usually like George RR Martin doesn’t Good job of like mixing the chapters of like, Alright, you’re in the north for one and then you’re in the south for a few and then you’re in the East for a few and then you get another North one. And there was just nothing from brand for a while. There are a couple chapters in there, but there’s no brand for a while and then all of a sudden we get out of nowhere. There’s a brand chapter and it’s like one of the last chapters of whichever book this happens, and I believe it’s still Clash of Kings. And it we see that they’ve been hiding in the crypts the whole time sneaking into the kitchens at night to steal food. And this kind of fulfills jojen screen dream. And before leaving the head, north, Asha, Mira, Hodor, and Bran all steal some of those swords that are guarding tombs of the old starts. Asha steals Ned’s mirrors steals Rickards brand steals his uncle Brandon’s and Hodor had stolen some old rusted sword. I don’t know who it came from. I imagine they were all probably a little rusty.

Nick 21:55
Well, a little shady,

Kalvin 21:58
Ned’s records and Brandon Shouldn’t have been because those are all the most recent tombs. Yeah, that’s true. They’re only 15 years old max. So yeah, that’s Yeah, timeline here. Yeah. Those those ones are probably okay. But brand specifically notice that hold over took some old rusted sword. So that leaves another old king unguarded. And that may come up when we start theorizing here Yeah, it’s just to me it all this is interesting because the crypts hold all the secrets and provide hiding places throughout the story and setting brand and Rick and and all these people down there for so long not knowing. It just shows like how easy it is. for something to get lost down there.

Nick 22:44
You know how massive it is? And yet it just intricate and complicated.

Kalvin 22:50
Well, it was partly Austin’s idea because she had heard the story of Bill Barr like that’s a wildling folktale that they tell to all kids growing up basically. So she had heard that story and Like that it was part of her idea and part brands idea to go down there. And, you know, basically do pull the veil the Bard and just wait until they could sneak out. And luckily you know Ramsey’s resetting of the city provided the perfect chance to get out.

Nick 23:15
Now another thing I just thought of is, imagine the superstition involved with that place to like that would just add another layer of fear and make it even more confusing.

Kalvin 23:25
Yeah, and it’s like these, this particular set of smart kids were always very comfortable in the crypts. So it wasn’t they weren’t always that for I mean, being down there day in and day out, you’d probably start to get a little frayed but like Asha Hodor, and the read kids like there’s no reason for them to be comfortable down there and that’d be that’d be pretty fucking creepy.

Nick 23:48
Yeah, a little bit. They’re like, yeah, this place is sweet. I love it. Smells great. I’ve

Kalvin 23:53
got a great place down here. Yes, thanks. really making sure we stayed with you are really accommodating. I appreciate it. And then in a Dance with Dragons Reek has some interactions with Rick slash Dion has some interactions with the crypts. First he takes a trip into the crypts with Lady Barbara Dustin. And they noticed that the statues are missing swords, and then lady Dustin combines and rIq her relationship with Brandon in their youth. Again, this is Ned’s brother Brandon, they had some sort of sexual relationship. But Brandon was later patrolled to Catholic Catlin, and this frustrated lady Dustin because she was passed over for southerner thinking that regard was choosing this life of expansion for Winterfell, which was kind of against what the North always went the North was historically isolationist. Yeah, so she, yeah, she thinks Ricard Stark has these sovereign ambitions as she called them, and everything he could do to space out and she was supposed to be the lady of Winterfell. You know, she had this relationship with Brandon and Brandon was gonna be Lauren shoe be lady and she gets passed over for some person down in the veil like or not the veil in river run

Nick 25:08
a southerner

Unknown Speaker 25:11
fucking Catlin, come on she just fucking everything good.

Kalvin 25:16
And then later, Holly and Abel, which Abel is most likely Mance rayder in disguise again pulling the Bard Abel is a acronym. What do you call it when you move the letters around? anagram There you go. Abel is an anagram of bail. So this is most likely Mance rayder doing his best failed of art impersonation sneaking into Winterfell with his spear wives. This Holly woman is probably one of the spear wives they asked me to show them the crypts, but he refuses and my take on this is they’re likely looking for a way to hide away with quote unquote Aria who’s actually gene pool and then later escape back to the north because That was part of the mission from Stannis was to save who they thought was Aria. And you know, Manse has always been intrigued by the song unveil the Bard. He sings it all the time. That’s how he grew it know so well. So it makes sense that he wants to continue to follow in his footsteps. So they were going to try and basically kidnap Aria from a Ramsey high down there until it was safe to leave and then leave as needed.

Nick 26:26
I mean, this is definitely a early on. I could see Mance rayder doing that for sure. And that would be any wildlings like first reaction would be like, I know exactly what to do.

Kalvin 26:37
I heard of this dude. Bail the Bard I got it. Yeah. Well, it’s it’s the best plan. That’s the only way other than like what Rick ended up doing with gene pool and jumping off the side of the wall and luckily landing in a huge Bank of snow that you know, I think the broken leg doing or if one of them broke a leg doing that. You don’t have a lot of options other than going in the crypts.

Nick 26:59
No And I mean that’s something that has that were superstition and just that you don’t go there type thing right that it’s a genuine solid plan.

Kalvin 27:10
It’s not only that you don’t go there a lot of people don’t know how to get in there they don’t know where it is and how to get there The only reason lady Dustin got there was because fee on show two fields the only one in Winterfell at this point that knows how to get there because he grew up with Star kids playing some of those same games with them in the crypts. Now nobody else knows how to get there and get into it. But fee on does and Lady Dustin says she wants to go down there to see Brandon because of their previous relationship. And really she just wants to pitch to Theon in private. So you know, it’s it’s an important place and a lot of people don’t even know how to get there and it’s a really good hiding place. It’s a really good point. Yeah. So a few other little things that happen throughout the story or that we learned throughout the story in the test. a testimony of mushroom which is an in world history book. It alleges that prints to Sara hilarion came to Winterfell at the start of the dance of dragons with his dragon ver Max and ver max laid a collection of dragon eggs in the depths of the crypts near where the hot springs are. But this thought is rejected by other historians mushroom is this dude he was a fool in the Targaryen court during the dance of the dragons times so he has his own history and then all the masters have their history and mushrooms is always the most salacious version of whatever happened.

Nick 28:40
And one of those I mean, that’s a given.

Kalvin 28:42
Yeah, it’s record. It’s it’s kind of great to read like some of the dance of dragons books or fire and blood history book that was just put out or the World of Ice and Fire because they take the Masters versions and they tell that like well, mushroom also said this and it’s probably somewhere in the Middle of the two things so take which one you want? I like to believe mushroom in any chance I get.

Nick 29:05
Hell yeah reminds me of Radek. Assa brown does the name much for

Kalvin 29:10
many people in world think that this collection of dragon eggs are in world and outside of the world and our world think that clutch hatched and that there is one or more dragons beneath Winterfell hiding in the crypts. It’s also believed that the water from the hot springs that’s piped throughout the castle to keep the castle warm. But maybe that the dragon is actually key is what’s making the hot springs hot. is continuously natural hot spring. Yeah. And so that’s important because if there is a dragon down there, it’s not going to be hiding for the whole story. No, no, you don’t put a dragon down there to not bring a dragon out. See? Yeah, we’ll talk about that. Another important thing we touched on the current start children would play on Often the crypts this important just because it shows their comfort with the crypts as you know most other children in in Winterfell and in the north are scared of the crypts. Nobody wants to go down there, but these Stark children like Yeah, cool. Let’s go fucking play.

Nick 30:13
Yeah, I’ve been down there a million times. It’s tight.

Kalvin 30:16
Yeah. Well, and it’s also a, it’s mirrored in when they go to King’s Landing and arias there. And she works her way through those tunnels on the backside, and she’s in like the dragon vaults. And here’s a virus and what’s the dude’s name? From Essos? Oh, I don’t know, the big fat guy. He basically housed denarius and I know there are other Yeah, I can’t think of his name right now. valaria. No, that’s not it. illyrio illyria I suppose you had an extra D in there for some reason. Yes. She hears that conversation between various and alien POTUS as they’re going deeper and deeper into those dungeons. She’s very active. Trouble kind of hiding and following them down there. She learned that from you know all our time in the crypts, not it’s like

Unknown Speaker 31:08
no, she’s exactly like Batman.

Nick 31:10
Yeah, they were born in the dark whereas all the other people just tried to inhabit it. Yeah,

Kalvin 31:16
yeah, gotcha. I’m picking up what you’re putting down.

Nick 31:18
Yeah, he’s picking up what I’m putting down Do you audience pick up what I’m putting down?

Kalvin 31:23
So some other small events that happen throughout the book A Game of Thrones. Jon Snow has vivid dreams about journeys deep into the crypts where he fears that he will find within them or he fears what he will find within them. Is this you know something hiding in Lana’s tomb that he’s worried about finding? I don’t know. We’re gonna we’re gonna speculate wildly and a few minutes.

Nick 31:47
Hence the word wildly.

Kalvin 31:48
Yeah. Ned also dreams of the crypts for calling. With all the stone kings watching him he recalls his the line from his sister promised me Ned so he He like has this dream. He’s standing in front of her tomb with all the other stone kings watching him. And just vividly recalling her last words. Promise me that promise me Ned. So again, something important going on around the honest tomb where everybody’s watching him meaning he’s trying to stay true to that. I guess. He promised her something with all the stone kings watching so he needs to hold on to that promise.

Nick 32:26
or his ancestors will no shit on him or ever.

Kalvin 32:29
Yeah, murder him after he’s dead.

Nick 32:32
Yeah, something like that.

Kalvin 32:34
Bran also dreams of going down into the crypts are he dreams that he goes into the crypts with the three eyed crow and he speaks with Ned. When he wakes up he has Hodor take him down there and hold or just won’t go absolutely refuses. He’s scared shitless and that has never happened before like coders taking him down there. Hodor takes him down there later but on this specific day he won’t do it. Later Mr. Lewin Asha are just made alone and Asha take brand down in the crypts. They find Rick in his down there in Ned’s empty tomb, claiming he also had a vision of Ned the night before. And then they later that same day received the news of Ned’s death. So there’s something going on, the crypts seem to somehow unlock a telepathic ability within the Starks. Yeah. Or they share some connection between each other while they’re there, or like they can all kind of connect to the crypts, telepathically or something there. There’s something going on

Nick 33:29
there. My idea? My thought is you have to go into it, saying that the tunnels were built from the weirwood tree roots. Hmm and you know how where trees are where wood wood is used where wood is used in a shit ton of stuff. Yeah, you know, it’s all over the site. Well, where

Kalvin 33:53
would the weirwood trees form a telepathic network for people like Bloodraven and Bran and anyone else who can use this ability? So that that makes a lot of sense.

Nick 34:06
I didn’t know that. That’s what I’m saying. Well that to go a step further, you know, that’s why it’s kind of like a whisper instead of an echo. Or like a straight up vision. It’s you know more.

Kalvin 34:20
Yeah, they see Ned but they don’t seem that dying necessarily,

Nick 34:23
right. Yeah, it’s it’s more kind of like a just a shadow of a vision. Yeah, whisper I think whisper whisper boy. I’m gonna go with let’s go with whisper. Yeah. revision. whisper of revision. Damn, we stumbled onto something there. But I think

Kalvin 34:37
that’s a great name for a book that has a vision. I call it that. Go ahead. You’re the one that’s like writing kind of writing a book. To some extent. I’m not so you can have it.

Nick 34:48
There might be

Kalvin 34:50
does anybody have telepathic abilities in your story?

Nick 34:53
No. That’s silly. fucking time. You could

Kalvin 34:56
still you could still introduce it at anytime

Nick 34:59
on there. I’m going I’m doing it. So yes, that was kind of the end of my theory.

Kalvin 35:06
No, I like that because it makes a lot of sense. If the crypts being tied to the weirwood tree and why it would unlock somewhat that telepathic ability in the Starks, that’s kind of latent in them anyways. Yeah. So and that’s kind of why they’re all drawn there and why Jon’s drawn there time and time again, because they have this ability and it’s drawing them more to those Wedgwood routes than it is to the actual crypts.

Unknown Speaker 35:30
Yeah, I like that. And I think we’ve stumbled on something.

Unknown Speaker 35:34
There we go. Put it put it out on Reddit. We’ve got it. I’m sure I’m really ever

Nick 35:37
screwed on Reddit. You fucking moron. There’s so we’re with roots under there. There’s a we’re with Treme Winterfell What are you talking about? Prove.

Kalvin 35:48
We got a few more small events in a storm swords, which is the third book, john dreams that he’s walking past the stone kings who tell him that there is no place for him in the crib. This hint heavily JOHN may not actually be a stark tree, he feels it’s because he’s a bastard. But thanks to a lot of fan theories and Game of Thrones, the show we know that’s not why he doesn’t block.

Nick 36:11
That is correct.

Kalvin 36:14
Yes, so let’s start talking about the future of the crypts, because that is going to be important. I surely hope so. I think I mean, he’s always George RR Martin’s always paid better attention to the crypts, obviously even TV shows we said so I hope he really really hope he kind of revisits them. Yeah. So what secrets are hidden within the crypts that still haven’t been revealed? Let’s talk first. Some time talk about what the show did with it. Early they they didn’t do much with the crypts like they showed Robert Ned going down there. They showed Brandon Rick and hiding down there. That’s really all and yes and Aria had some conversations down there when they both returned to Winterfell

Nick 37:00
It was a it was like more, up until the final season. I was just kind of there. You know, like it was not super important. But then the, the preamble to the final season it was just very it was I mean, they insinuated a lot.

Kalvin 37:15
Yeah, very heavy handed. Well, the crypts are the safest place like 500 times throughout the first three episodes. And then they served as a very bad place for the citizens of Winterfell to hide during the battle with the white walkers. And I just gotta say, like, seriously, you’re going against an army that can raise the dead? Why in the Seven Hills? Are you hiding innocent people? It was basically a graveyard with no way out.

Nick 37:43
Yeah, and they already have swords. Yeah. So down.

Kalvin 37:48
Not a great idea to just be like, hey, oh, you innocent women and children. Here’s a bunch of dead people. We don’t think they’ll ever rise like don’t worry about that. It’s not like the the guy on the other side. He can just fucking lift his arms and

Nick 38:00
No, that never happened, so it’s wonderful. Yeah, I mean, it’s the crypts when that would never happen

Kalvin 38:05
they’re the safest place to beat Hillary. Yeah so the dead in the crypts rise obviously and attack quote unquote attack the people hiding there they go after the people hiding there let’s say that yeah nobody ever actually seems like they’re in danger even though there’s no way out

Nick 38:22
they’re just like ah

Kalvin 38:24
and then they’re all these dead that rise in the crypts are eventually stopped when the mothership is destroyed. I’m sorry, not the mothership the Nike is killed. The basically

Nick 38:34
same thing. Yeah, if you haven’t seen Game of Thrones, get out of here.

Kalvin 38:39
It’s basically every bad science fiction superhero movie plot. We got to just destroy the biggest ship and then everything else will fall Don’t worry about

Nick 38:50
well, they just don’t come up with anything fucking better,

Kalvin 38:53
that there’s a lot better and let’s talk about what better they could have done with the crypts. Let’s hear okay. Here’s the ones we’ve touched on. For fans. These are just fan theories that are out in the world. We’re going to talk about everything that we’ve read or seen and then we’ll talk about what we actually think. So things we’ve touched on dead are gonna run the dead within the crypts are gonna rise. There’s a dragon hiding in the crypts feeling the hot springs and Leona’s tomb is hiding something but we don’t know what most likely some form truth about John’s parentage, right? Right. Maybe concealing regards HAARP that could be this another one I read that a dragon egg could be in there wrapped in a red Targaryen wedding cloak. Did you have that one?

Nick 39:37
That was one I was just sitting here thinking like, you know, I i’ve been vacillating on several different things. And it’s like, you know, that seems like the most likely one to me.

Kalvin 39:44
Yeah, that would essentially legitimize john because with the wedding quote there and the dragon because new Targaryen babies. Even when dragon and eggs haven’t been hatching left and right for the past hundred or so years. They’re still giving dragon eggs at birth. And then you wrap it in the wedding clothes. That shows that Liana was meant like, Liana had that clip for a reason. Right? Right. In regards HAARP is another important thing.

Nick 40:09
So what else the only way you could also prove it.

Kalvin 40:12
Right? That that there was a relationship with radar. It happens something special to radar being there or like literally a note saying, hey, this guy’s my kid. And we’re married. Yeah, totally. Don’t worry about

Nick 40:27
ask him.

Kalvin 40:30
So did you find any other theories out there in the world?

Nick 40:33
Do I found a bajillion theories? There’s so many, but I really I like the ghostly theories. Okay,

Kalvin 40:43
let’s try and go back and forth on what we found. I’m sure we found a lot of the same thing. So you say one, then I’ll say one, then you say one now that will go that way.

Nick 40:50
I only have a couple that we haven’t really mentioned so far. I have six but

Kalvin 40:55
some of them kind of go together and it’s fine.

Nick 40:57
We’ll figure it out. I’m gonna go with two Keep it a solid two Why don’t you start okay because I have more

Kalvin 41:04
the tomb of the Knights King slash Knights Queen are down there not to be confused with the night King from the show the night King from the show does not exist in the books. The Night’s King is a believer he checked him a background on the Night’s King. I feel like I should a super quick one. So the night king he was a member of the Knights or the Night’s King sorry he was a member of the Nights Watch rose to Lord Commander. And then this was when the night for was the main castle for the Nights Watch they one day he was standing on the Tower of the night for and he saw a bright blue woman out on the horizon is the best ice ice looking blue white woman out on the horizon. Goes chase her down, brings her back makes him his queen and then start sacrificing a bunch of babies to the others.

Nick 41:58
Yeah, he does some crazy shit. I’ve heard that theory. And I

Kalvin 42:04
that’s a theory it’s like a it’s an in world folktale basically like old man tells brand that story.

Nick 42:11
Correct. And there’s actually some legitimate You know, there may be some legitimate truth to it.

Kalvin 42:16
Yeah. So he Yeah, he forces the nightwatch into taking wives and having children and then sacrifice his children to the others. It’s believed that this woman he saw was an other also and she kind of persuaded him into doing all this.

Nick 42:32
She’s like a sentience you know, she’s basically the night king but just a few little version

Kalvin 42:38
Yeah. And and then yeah, seduce this dude. married him sacrifice children, the Nights Watch the wildlings and to the others, that’s where sorry, the Nights Watch and wildlings to the elders. So that’s the theory is that the tombs of one or both of those people are down there. The Night’s King is believed to have been a stark That’s why all the records of the 13th Lord Commander have kind of been scratched from the records of the nightwatch. There’s basically nothing on him because they think, well, he was a stark and the Starks are very powerful in the north. They don’t want anyone thinking that the Starks have anything to do with sacrificing babies.

Nick 43:19
Yeah, they don’t want their dirty laundry out.

Kalvin 43:21
Exactly. So the Starks kind of struck everything from the record, once they realize what he was doing after they brought him down.

Nick 43:29
Or even if they didn’t necessarily, you know, can prove it, they’re just like, Oh, this is fun. You know, just the rumors of it even.

Kalvin 43:36
Exactly. So I like that theory.

Nick 43:38
You got one for me. I do like that theory. My theory or the theory that I’ve kind of picked up as I’ve gone throughout is that there is like legitimately spirits or something akin to the weirwood tree like part of that network amongst the the dead buried and the iron for some reason. I can’t remember the I’ve read three or four different things in universe about why iron May, you know, keep the Spirits Within, but it kind of expanded upon the great man theory almost. It’s like the great man. You know, their spirit is obviously very powerful. They’re very powerful in life. They’re very powerful in depth. And that’s what it requires to to keep them contained. don’t necessarily know why it’s iron per se.

Kalvin 44:31
weird thing, but yeah, sometimes you just need something.

Nick 44:35
Well, yeah, I think iron you know, obviously, all kinds of things have, you know, have their roots in ancient weird traditions. But I think the real telltale sign is the iron wood tree door like the door keeping them all you know, there’s a lot of iron there, you know, hard, right. There’s a lot of

Kalvin 44:54
there’s a lot of iron trying to hold things back. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense that iron iron has something to do with holding things inside the crypts because what happens when they don’t stay in the crypts?

Nick 45:07
Well there’s that and you know another part of the theory is what if if there you know, there’s all those Starks who have this weird supernatural, a lot of them have that weird connection with the old gods. That’d be way too many kind of exists.

Kalvin 45:22
What a lot of them throughout history are skin changers as we see Bran and john and Aria. So that’s like a thing that lives in the stark bloodline, especially with direwolves. So

Nick 45:34
yeah, it’s there’s a lot of shit around there. And I just always kind of looked at it like what if there were, you know, 5000 blood ravens that just kind of kept reincarnating or being passed down through from start to Stark.

Kalvin 45:48
Another one that I saw, most of the ones I saw were they came from Reddit. This one was it’s just a way to foreshadow John’s death. There’s nothing special down there to help legitimize john or anything like that. Balance harsh and cynical, and I hate it.

Unknown Speaker 46:03
Fair. That’s fair.

Kalvin 46:06
JOHN just keeps seeing visions of himself in the crypts because he’s gonna die. Well he did that.

Nick 46:10
That’s it. He knows it. So I mean, I just

Kalvin 46:12
thought and these books, use your thought to enhance them in every scenario. Yes, there’s nothing that is exactly as it seems right? In a different story. Yeah, maybe that’s the case of John’s going to die. So john sees himself in the crypts, but he doesn’t just see himself in the crypts. He sees himself with people telling him he doesn’t belong there. He sees himself with this uneasy feeling that something’s hiding from him down there. Those are the important things. It’s not rise in the crypts. It’s what he feels in the crypts. very key contacts there. Yeah. Another one says that there is a tunnel from the crypts that goes all the way to or through the wall

Nick 46:55
to be a good distance.

Kalvin 46:57
I’ll expand on that a little bit when I get into my personal thoughts that believe the Horn of winter might be down there which this is a horn that is believed to wait giants and bring down the wall and that the great other is down there calling out to the others to wake him which that kind of goes with the Knights King Knight Queen theory of there’s something down there calling me others that’s why they’re moving south again and then there must always be a stark in Winterfell

Nick 47:28
This is known

Kalvin 47:30
this is saying that the starts sorry, this is the thing of the Starks and it has to hold some historical significance or some mythical significance. because there aren’t currently any starts in Winterfell Catlin says to Ned when he wants to go south. It’s something that’s said over and over again as the Starks are dwindling from Winterfell. So what why must there always be a stark in Winterfell right, is that gonna somehow allow these uneasy spirits stories that aren’t protected by their swords anymore. Does it break some covenant they have with the children of the forest or with the others? Did the Starks have some magical power over went over Winterfell that breaks if it isn’t there. Or if they aren’t there, like there’s got to be to me, there’s got to be something to that saying, right.

Nick 48:16
I 100% agree. And that will play into my personal opinion later.

Kalvin 48:20
Yeah. Because that’s it’s significant that they keep saying it. If they said at once, okay, it’s a throwaway line, but they keep bringing it up like there has and the fact that there aren’t any stocks in Winterfell those two things together have to be important. I agree. 100% All right. What did you have one more that you found out on the internet and then we get into our personal opinions. Yes, this is a quick one, but we mentioned it earlier that there’s a dragon living beneath Winterfell This one is slightly different, where it’s not necessarily a dragon living beneath Winterfell but a petrified dragon or like a fossilized dragon living beneath Winterfell that still has viable eggs with it. And yeah those are recovered and so basically it takes the the verb max theory of he was there he or she was there she laid eggs and says no there’s a different dragon down there that laid eggs

Nick 49:13
yet got lost down there are some shit basically and not necessarily laid eggs but like, died before died and became petrified before the legs were a laid so there within the dragons still right now you know in Dragon because

Kalvin 49:29
that dragon is so close to the hotsprings those eggs are still worn. Yeah, they have to live under the right circumstances. Maybe they could

Nick 49:38
hatch. Exactly. You’re pulling the words right out of my mouth.

Kalvin 49:42
I’m sorry, I should let you say that. Well, you’re you’re following my thread. I love it. To go along with that. There’s another story. It’s a children’s story that George RR Martin wrote called the ice dragon. And in it and I’ve listened to this on audiobook it’s actually really good and like I’ll listen to it with my daughters. They’re probably Few years away from hearing it like to understand what’s going on. Hmm This little girl befriends a nice drag, right? And she flies all around on it all the time. And she flies north and south on it from their cat like they live in a castle. That’s basically Kindle Winterfell in this story supposedly does not exist within the World of Ice and Fire. It is a separate story, but it touches on a lot of the same themes. They live in this big castle. That’s a stronghold in the north. She takes this ice dragon to fly up north. Towards the end of the story. That spoilers for no one’s gonna read this and you know, doesn’t want to be spoiled for a children’s story. The dragon dies and melts into a hot spring basically. So there are thoughts that this hot spring is actually a melted ice dragon in the same way that’s told from that story. And if he listened to the story, you kind of see where that theory comes from. And Kinda like that tie in better than well there’s just some other dragon down there. I really I liked your theory with the dragon with the hot springs next to it. I also like that ice dragons exist and that this thing happened because I like that other story and it’d be kind of a cool way to tie that together because he does sprinkle on youtube I watch this game of thrones Song of Ice and Fire theorizes name’s Preston Jacobs. And he comes up with these really intricate theories based on empirical evidence from these stories and other stories that george RR Martin’s written. And he ties them together and George RR Martin sprinkles bits of every other story he’s told within every other story he’s telling. So to me, that’s a kind of that would be a cool juxtaposition to put those together.

Nick 51:44
That would be it. I mean, we know for a fact ice dragons exist, like we know.

Kalvin 51:50
I wouldn’t base anything that happens on the show and call that a fact.

Nick 51:55
Fair that is 100% fair.

Kalvin 51:58
But the idea is out there, right? Yes. The idea of a nice dragon is a fact

Nick 52:04
and giant spiders and all kinds of crazy shit that we never got to see in the show. So I mean it’s very it’s within the realm of possibility that ice dragon success for sure. Maybe

Kalvin 52:13
Yeah, and I believe and I could be wrong that the starts at some point talk about dragons or old man tell stories of ice strength. So that kind of ties the other the other story into it is a lot of people think like old man is the little girl from the ice dragon story, which would be kind of a cool thing, but not necessarily to me. Hmm. So they like they’ve tied it all together. I didn’t even think of that until we were talking about your dragon with its viable eggs. So, but yeah, that’s a cool thing. Alright, so let’s talk about our personal opinions.

Unknown Speaker 52:43
You want to first you want me to

Nick 52:46
go first, actually, you go first. So here’s my personal opinion. And this ties upon the why there always must be a stark in Winterfell. So the Starks have been around since the First Men right Yes, and as you know, as being the first or whatever they’re going to hold on to power, they’re going to be, you know, at the helm, the cutting edge, yada, yada, probably have the greatest lands, you know, but in a northern, you know, the northern area where it’s cold life is harder, etc, you kind of have to have an atomic bomb, if you will. So that’s that’s my personal opinion is that there always must be a stark in Winterfell. Because if their bloodline if their position of power is genuinely threatened, like there’s no chance they’re going to survive and they’re going to be snuffed out. That’s when they, you know, maybe gain the ability or there’s some kind of ritual or they find something kind of like the Horn of winner that has some mystical property that raises all those from the dead and use them to kind of reverse the tides and take out the Enemy like airborne did and return like a kind of like that’s weird weird pack that they have like right you know you can never sleep you’re tied to the you know the world of living as a stark but you have a position to play you know you have a role to play possibly in the future like you’re guarding your your seat your house your bloodline for turn right and the end the Starks

Kalvin 54:25
are the only one with that magical ability to hold whatever that is

Nick 54:31
that day. I mean they still believe in the old gods they’re still very tied to that culture and then you know, thousand 8000 plus years later it’s still something that’s very prevalent in there you know, they say old fucking sayings every other five minutes. winter’s coming I wonder how long

Kalvin 54:46
that one’s been around? starts love a good saying, Yeah, I’ll give him that. So I had this thought while you were just talking about why Iron Man keep these spirits at bay. When The first men came over, there was a battle with the children the force the inhabitants of, you know, Westeros. So the first men come over, they fight, and they fight and they fight. Eventually a pact is reached. But the First Men were beating the shit out of the children in the forest. Yeah, they were doing it with their iron weapons, because they had bronze and iron weapons and the children had magic and were the size of children. They were very much weak compared to the First Men. So I’m wondering if all that iron the iron swords, the iron wood door all of that has some meaning to the children of the forest can’t use these dead starts if they’re protected by the iron kind of thing. They’re, they’re protecting their that starts from the children of the forest or the others who can use that ability against them. Oh, maybe.

Nick 55:56
I’m listening. Go ahead.

Kalvin 55:57
Yeah. If if they were in these battles, and Every once in a while let’s start like a first man would have to fall right like the chill in the forest or taking some casualties. Otherwise, why are you gonna reach a pack executive every every time a casualty went down the Chola forest raised that casualty, you’re going to find a way to stop that from happening. Right? Correct. So if that’s their best weapon, raising the dead using the others, you know, creating the others as we saw on the show, you need a you need a way that they can’t do that to all of your dead throughout history. So they start protecting them with it,

Nick 56:31
especially your great men, your commanders, your guys that are fighting the children in the forest really.

Kalvin 56:39
And and now they can’t raise those people when they come to attack except they can raise some of them because the iron swords have either rusted or installed

Nick 56:49
correctly. Maybe they didn’t think they’d be around that long. But another

Unknown Speaker 56:53
son may be able to wipe

Nick 56:54
out the children at some point exactly like that just came to mind as well. It’s almost like nuclear deterrence like it Say the children of the forest gain a foothold again and they renege on their pact and decide to start taking back Westeros boom raise those fuckers uh, good to go. Well, I don’t know if that’s necessarily viable. But uh, yeah, like a, you know, a last ditch effort to Yeah, there’s a lot to wait on guard for eternity to stand against the children of the forest or like this seat will not be taken. bitches. This is the Alamo.

Kalvin 57:29
Exactly. I like what we just kind of came up with on the fly there. Yeah, it was pretty good. Actually, it wasn’t in my brain house taking my notes. So I have a few other theories of what’s going on down there. I think you know, some of the things that we talked about are gonna pan out in some small way but it’s gonna be kind of a combination and pieces of things. Not one whole thing. I like the idea of a dragon under Winterfell I like your idea better of there’s like this petrified dragging down there with the eggs just waiting. Better than just like Okay, there’s just been this dragon chilling out in there for 150 years right and nobody’s fucking noticed yet. But the the problem with any dragons being there even the ice dragon theory is it kind of if there’s that dragon there the whole time it kind of cheapens the impact of Danny’s dragon. And the same could be said if there’s a dragon egg, either just deep within the crypts or in lianas tomb it that the only reason to put an egg or dragon in the crypts is to have john hatchet. But Danny hatching her eggs was such a fluke thing that happened in no one knows what exactly happened or how they did it. And no one knows how to actually hatch an egg like it just happened to happen. There was the perfect set of circumstances and it happened and nobody actually knows how they pulled it off.

Nick 58:52
Yeah, there’s a secret before that even right exactly

Kalvin 58:56
where it was a valaria in secret and then then Targaryens brought it and they were the only ones that knew how to do it in Westeros. Once the Doom of Larry hit, they were the only ones that knew how to do it because they weren’t there for the do. Who would have just stole the eggs and couldn’t figure out how to hatch them. So they hit him?

Nick 59:13
Well, I antastic place to hide them. It I agree

Kalvin 59:16
it would be. But I just think you have to do too much work with exposition to and like you have to go super deep onto dragon egg lore. And like, that’s gonna be to me, that would be super ham fisted Lee done at this point, when we have two books left of like, let’s just jam as much dragon egg lore and how to hatch dragons into two books when especially because he just wrote fire of fire and blood and there’s nothing about it in there. There’s like no hints to how that eggs actually hatch in there, which is the history of the Targaryens. I think there may be be something in there and there’s not. That’s just I think you have to do too much exposition to get to where john can actually hatch an egg in a scenario that’s not a fluke. And I don’t think you can do another one. fluke scenario where he just happens to be burning next to the eggs where somebody chanting some magical words, and a baby just happened to die. Like there are too many variables and what happened with Danny to repeat the same kind of thing with john. That’s so you either have to explain how it’s really done. Or you got hatch the egg what’s the point of having egg if it’s not gonna hatch though?

Nick 1:00:23
I mean, there’s just for the thread of it really. It can be the most valuable thing in the world, even if you’re not even it’s worthless doesn’t hatch.

Kalvin 1:00:33
I agree. When you’ve already hatched one dragon egg. Why throw another one in there? That’s my thought on it narratively of why would you you put that in there.

Nick 1:00:43
I mean, I’m sure the thoughts crossed or our minds mine.

Kalvin 1:00:46
Oh, I’m sure. He’s a lot better at this than I am at theorizing about what he’s thinking. I would hope so. So I do definitely think that there’s something down there pointing to John’s lineage specifically in lianas to To me, it’s most likely regards harp and some sort of certifications certificate certification of their marriage. Thank you. Just like Mr. Sign, like, I don’t know if there’s marriage certificates in Westeros, maybe there is and maybe there’s like they have that piece of paper in the tomb with her with the heart. A Reddit user pointed out the juxtaposition of regards heart protecting Liana versus the iron swords protecting the Kings down there, speaking more thoroughly to how radar truly was different than most nights. You know, his most prized possession is his heart, not his sword. So that to him would be a very special thing that he would want buried with his wife and future child. You know,

Nick 1:01:48
that’s that’s fuckin great point Jesus. Yeah,

Kalvin 1:01:50
thank you, Reddit user who I didn’t write down your name, because I closed out of the Reddit before I decided to include that point in my notes. Oh, I have link to the Reddit where I got all this stuff from, or like the post where I got all this stuff from so I’ll put that in the show notes and maybe somebody else can find it.

Nick 1:02:07
Sounds good. I want to find this Reddit user thread.

Kalvin 1:02:10
Yeah, it’s I like the idea of the heart being in there because the heart kind of was his most important thing. And everybody knew it was his heart. Like it was a thing that he had with him constantly, constantly playing it and singing it. He was this kind of somber soul roaming around looking for his purpose. And he was a really good soldier but that to him that wasn’t his true purpose.

Nick 1:02:33
That wasn’t his passion. Right? You didn’t want to fucking slaughter a bunch of people. I also think Oh, go ahead. I was just saying wanted to make tunes bro. Yeah, I just want to jam on some tunes.

Kalvin 1:02:45
I also think that the dead are going to rise at some point specifically the ones no longer protected by their swords. We talked a lot about this. You know, either the others come down and they raise them or it has something to do with there must always be a stark in Winterfell. Now there’s no start. Maybe those guys start waking up. I think something’s going on there. We also don’t know like I said, whose sword hold or took, you know that could belong to the great other being imprisoned down there. Maybe that’s the sword he took, or possibly we’re talking about the Night’s King being a star. What if the Night’s King is buried down there and Hodor took his sword and now he’s coming back. And again, he’s a bad dude. Yeah, he’s not a good rising would not be a good thing. So we don’t want to see him rise.

Nick 1:03:27
No. Damn, that’s a good one.

Kalvin 1:03:29
So yeah, I like the idea that that sword specifically will unlock unlock some greater evil like, okay, they took

Nick 1:03:36
that sort of incidence though that’d be such a coincidence. It could. They would not have they would not have it that close to the surface. Let me just say that are close to Ned’s nose, but

Kalvin 1:03:47
let’s do the math on it for a second. So the Night’s King was the 13th Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.

Nick 1:03:52
Yes. And john is the 999 Okay, that’s

Kalvin 1:03:55
1000 I was thinking it was 99. I thought they were 999 and 100 and I wasn’t going to 1000 Okay, nevermind. Yeah, that mats really big. But we also don’t know how vast we don’t know how far Hodor and everyone went into the depths of these tunnels if you’re there for a week so they’re feeling like they’re wandering around when they’re in the because we do get to see it in the when they’re in blood ravens tree in brand’s Final Chapter like they’re wandering everywhere down in those tunnels.

Nick 1:04:23
Well, here’s another way to check that out is so they never were able to find brand new builders tomb they assume he was down there. But who is that he built the wall so he would have established the first

Kalvin 1:04:38
he would have been one of the first tombs

Nick 1:04:40
one by one for deed he would have established the first Lord Commander. So if there’s 13 Lord commanders,

Kalvin 1:04:46
well, all the Lord commanders aren’t buried down there.

Nick 1:04:48
I know that but if he was a start 13th Lord Commander, I’m just trying to use that as a like a rough estimate. Let’s call it 40 years between each floor commander or something like that. Yeah, I would say that levels probably see hold off

Kalvin 1:05:01
500 years maybe

Nick 1:05:03
yeah so I’m guessing he sailed off right yeah. Yeah

Kalvin 1:05:08
that level so you’d have to go 7500 years deep give or take

Nick 1:05:12
and if it’s as expensive as it is and as deep and old as it is and it’s already collapsing and at some

Kalvin 1:05:18
point I don’t know what the fuck he’s doing it

Unknown Speaker 1:05:20
he gets lost like I will take this sword

Kalvin 1:05:23
Yeah, this one looks good.

Nick 1:05:25
Yeah, I’ll take this one it’s still working. And I mean iron definitely I would not say last 1000 years I mean we don’t have any evidence of iron realistically and I mean George RR Martin basis some of his you know a lot of his world in genuine fact with a fantasy twist

Unknown Speaker 1:05:41
Well yeah.

Kalvin 1:05:43
I yeah, I’m not disagreeing I just thought like, because so to me, they specifically point out who Asha Mira and brand take swords from, but with Hodor it’s just some other so I feel like that other sword has to belong to somebody important. Now it It might not be maybe it’s an important good guy throughout history, you know? I don’t know, I just was kind of thinking, I think there’s something there with who’s sorted hold or take?

Nick 1:06:10
I think. I mean, I definitely think you’re right. I just don’t know who, what the it’s not like George RR Martin not to leave that fact out, right.

Kalvin 1:06:20
It’ll come back in some way. I’m not saying necessarily that one was pretty imprisoning the great other, or the Night’s King or anything like that. But those are kind of threads to pull out.

Nick 1:06:30
That is definitely a thread I kind of want to pull out.

Kalvin 1:06:32
And then my last thing that I wanted to talk on, I had actually never heard the theories about the tunnels leading to the wall and through the wall. Hmm. And to me, that makes a little too much sense not to be true. Because the Starks often served in the nightwatch. Historically, not really any more, I guess. Benjin does and john does but historically, the Starks were serving in the nightwatch and specifically became Lord commanders. They may want a secret Way back to the wall. Same with Bran, the builder, builder, he built the wall he built Winterfell. Maybe he wanted that secret way back and forth and he built the crypts off of that secret passageway.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:08
That’s a good theory.

Kalvin 1:07:11
And the final thing I wanted to know is the wildling. Tell the wildlings tell stories of Kendall and Gorn, who got lost in the tunnels north of the wall and never reappeared. This is a story gret tells john when they’re in the cave, go into town on it. Yeah, I was gonna say do and after they’ve gone, yeah, after they’ve gone to town, because she wants to just kind of run away with him and get lost in the tunnels like annalynne gore did, and not face the world anymore. Not Be nightwatch not be wildlings and have to worry about that because I think deep down she knew he was always going to go back to the nightwatch when it came time for that choice.

Nick 1:07:45
I think she was gonna

Kalvin 1:07:46
die. So it’s thought that Kendall and Gorn and the all the people that they brought with them that they died down in these tunnels because they just got lost. But what if they found some of these secret passages to Winterfell and they just continue their lives South The wall maybe they became a house that we now know as a northern house. You know, there’s a lot of time there that can be pulled on also, like I don’t know exactly where it goes. But if there’s tunnels down there that lead far enough away that nobody can explore them. There’s nothing saying it can’t go to the wall. There’s nothing saying that can’t go past the wall. There’s nothing saying that these guys who are beyond the wall couldn’t get south of the wall through those passages. That’s true. That is very and those tunnels can still lead to the where would in the same way you were pointing out earlier and they can lead to the wall and they can lead anywhere because the fuckin tunnels. Yeah. Have you ever seen an ant farm?

Nick 1:08:34
Damn, you just blew my mind, bro.

Kalvin 1:08:37
That’s why we talk about things.

Nick 1:08:38
I love it. When

Kalvin 1:08:41
I’m done with the crypts, I don’t have anything else to say.

Nick 1:08:44
I think I beat the crypts to death.

Kalvin 1:08:47

Nick 1:08:50
Yeah, I’m working on my dad jokes. I’m practicing a lot. Yeah,

Kalvin 1:08:53
you’re gonna need those. Your daughter’s gonna be starting to you know really come after you for some sweet hilarity. So you got to get clarity for me. She’ll fucking hate my guts but I don’t care. She’ll she’ll like it for the next like four years. So you’re good.

Nick 1:09:07
Yeah, that’s four years is a long time and I

Kalvin 1:09:10
will surely go and then you just get stuck in that habit and you can’t stop making them once they’re actually embarrassed by them.

Nick 1:09:17
I just got to live with me, bro. I gotta live I mean.

Kalvin 1:09:21
Alright, so thank you for listening. You can check us out on Twitter at APA something at alone underscore podcast. We’re always there doing all kinds of crazy shit. Stay safe, stay healthy. Wash your fucking hands. Don’t be afraid to go out and get things you need. Don’t buy 900 cases of toilet paper.

Nick 1:09:40
No, don’t be an asshole.

Kalvin 1:09:42
Don’t be some for the rest of us. For the rest of us need to wipe our assholes.

Nick 1:09:45
Yeah, I couldn’t even find baby wipes for my kid the other day.

Kalvin 1:09:48
So it’s rough man. Yeah, don’t hoard baby wipes you decks. You’re not babies don’t hoard anything. If you don’t hoard them, then they will always be available in the stores. If you hoard them, then they Won’t be available in the stores. Do you

Unknown Speaker 1:10:01
see how that works, people? I see.

Kalvin 1:10:04
Thank you for listening. All the music is provided by those cats. We got a special next week. Sorry, I’ll get back to those cats. But next week is our 100th episode. We’ve got something fun, it’s gonna be fun for us. I don’t know if anybody else cares about it, but it’s very self indulgent and very fun for us. So stay tuned for Episode 100 next week, thanks to those cats for providing all the music for podcasts about something you guys do. So actually

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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